Fedor

[Workaholic]

Frank Mir is no scrub on the ground, dude. Getting caught in a submission hold is part of the game, kid of like getting caught by a haymaker. A guy shouldn't be dismissed of credibility just because he got caught. It happens in fighting all the time.

Nowhere did I dismiss Frank Mir's abilities, in fact I think he doesn't get nearly enough credit as a grappler. However, Frank came out the winner in a brief ground exchange after Nog had a few threatening moments while Werdum out grappled Nog at every moment over multiple ground exchanges and was never even briefly threatened. While Mir beat Nog badly in their brief ground exchange and pulled off one of MMA's greatest ever submissions with a brilliant opportunistic move, Werdum's performance did more to show he was a superior grappler between the two as there was no point in their grappling exchanges that Nog succeeded at anything he tried

 

[sberg]

Whatever happens, I hope he comes back invigorated and ready to kick some ass

Id like to see Fedor v Brock

 

[P0rkchop]

But can he even be relevant when he comes back. I've made the mistake in believing in older NFL players and it has cost me. Colston and White for example

 

[MuyThaiElbows]

Nowhere did I dismiss Frank Mir's abilities, in fact I think he doesn't get nearly enough credit as a grappler. However, Frank came out the winner in a brief ground exchange after Nog had a few threatening moments while Werdum out grappled Nog at every moment over multiple ground exchanges and was never even briefly threatened. While Mir beat Nog badly in their brief ground exchange and pulled off one of MMA's greatest ever submissions with a brilliant opportunistic move, Werdum's performance did more to show he was a superior grappler between the two as there was no point in their grappling exchanges that Nog succeeded at anything he tried

Nog beat Werdum in their prime, and Werdum sub'd a washed up Big Nog. Big Nog's BJJ and ground game is one of the best in MMA when he was feared. Just because time passes us, doesn't mean we forget how good some guys were in the past.

Everyone is riding Fabricio's sack right now because he's at the top. Once he's knocked off and fair weathered fans hop off the bandwagon, Big nog wil probably go down as the better HW than Werdum. Unless Werdum remains champion for 2+ years

 

[Ralo]

They actually have something else in common:

The fact that he became super religious, stopped training as much, and shrunk down into a shadow of himself.

This and they were all in a cage

 

[sberg]

Why is everyone laughing at this? I'm sure there's a lot of fans who would agree that Big Nogs BJJ was the same level as Werdum at one point in time.

There probably are intelligent MMA fans out there who would agree with you but you posted on Sherdog hoping to find them, that's where you messed up.......

Here's a clue of the basic Sherdog participant you're talking too -

....

The kind of woman they might date if they even know what a woman is -

.....

And their favorite hobby -

 

[Sasquatch Smith]

Why is everyone laughing at this? I'm sure there's a lot of fans who would agree that Big Nogs BJJ was the same level as Werdum at one point in time.

I think whoever thinks that would be wrong, BUT Nog's BJJ was outstanding and I dont think the gap in their skill level is worth laughing at as some other posters seem to think

 

[Workaholic]

Nog beat Werdum in their prime, and Werdum sub'd a washed up Big Nog. Big Nog's BJJ and ground game is one of the best in MMA when he was feared. Just because time passes us, doesn't mean we forget how good some guys were in the past.

Everyone is riding Fabricio's sack right now because he's at the top. Once he's knocked off and fair weathered fans hop off the bandwagon, Big nog wil probably go down as the better HW than Werdum. Unless Werdum remains champion for 2+ years

And just because Nog got older doesn't mean his grappling technique disappears. He got schooled. Nog is one of the greatest grapplers in MMA history. That will never change. But Werdum is a superior grappler and already has more accomplishments in this area in MMA and outside of it. Not saying Werdum has a superior MMA career. I am saying he is a better grappler in any arena and that isn't arguable

 

[MuyThaiElbows]

And just because Nog got older doesn't mean his grappling technique disappears. He got schooled. Nog is one of the greatest grapplers in MMA history. That will never change. But Werdum is a superior grappler and already has more accomplishments in this area in MMA and outside of it. Not saying Werdum has a superior MMA career. I am saying he is a better grappler in any arena and that isn't arguable

As fighters get older, their techniques and skills get slower and weaker. Werdum sub'ing Nog two years ago doesn't make him better on the ground than Big Nog overall.

Once Fabricio stops drinking water from the fountain of youth, he'll be discredited and thrown to the side just like most are doing to Nog.

My point is PRIME Nog's BJJ vs PRIME Werdum's BJJ is not a blow out. It's a lot closer than some are trying to make it seem.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

I think it more had to do with his lack of size and his focus not being on fighting anymore. He was already a small Heavyweight but when he stopped lifting, now he was undersized, had virtually no power and no muscle. He also seemed more interested in going in, winning quickly and getting out. He lost his passion for fighting and turned it into religion.

The biggest thing to take away from the 3 Strikeforce losses were he fought completely reckless with zero technique. He was heading hunting and brawling. He got a little wild at times in PRIDE but never to that degree.

 

[Sirwastealot]

Come on TS. Didn't fight anyone close to wedum's submissions? How about his biggest rival in his career?

With Hendo you mentioned smaller and faster, and I would have mentioned some but you went on to list 10 other attributes.

So if you are saying he faced people who were not absolutely exactly the same as his previous opponents, yea... you have a point. But those weren't some incredible new challenges.

Except BF, he was much bigger, possibly on TRT, stronger and a strong grappler. Dangerous combo for Fedor. I still think at his best Fedor takes him through the striking advantage.

 

[Abysmal]

There are plenty of guys who have great, Big Nog level BJJ.

There are only a few guys in the world that have Werdum level BJJ, and most of them are much smaller.

He's always been elite of the elite in the BJJ world his recent streak has nothing to do with it.

He subbed Fedor 5 years ago.. ffs.

What he said. Sounds like quite a few people don't know much about Werdum's grappling credentials. Big Nog is my favorite fighter and clearly he has good BJJ, but he's not on Werdum's level.

 

[chickenlip]

I would love to see fedor vs weidman down the road.

That fight might result in Fedor's death

 

[kikikhan]

Most people here assume he simply lost because he was past prime. Maybe that

 

[kikikhan]

What he said. Sounds like quite a few people don't know much about Werdum's grappling credentials. Big Nog is my favorite fighter and clearly he has good BJJ, but he's not on Werdum's level.

Arona and Monson have pretty good grappling credentials too.

 

[rjmbrd]

I don't know the result of those 3 fights in Fedor's prime, but he most certainly would have had a much better chance. Time waits for no man. I have a very hard time seeing that version of Dan Henderson beating Fedor in his prime.

Anyone in here saying Big Nog is equivalent to Werdum at jiu-jitsu, this is flat out ridiculous. He's got 19 medals from IBJJF, ADCC and the Pan Ams from 2000-2011, and most of them are gold.

Big Nog is an accomplished MMA adapted grappler. Werdum is an accomplished MMA adapted grappler who's one of the best ground fighters of all time.

 

[kikikhan]

I don't know the result of those 3 fights in Fedor's prime, but he most certainly would have had a much better chance. Time waits for no man. I have a very hard time seeing that version of Dan Henderson beating Fedor in his prime.

Anyone in here saying Big Nog is equivalent to Werdum at jiu-jitsu, this is flat out ridiculous. He's got 19 medals from IBJJF, ADCC and the Pan Ams from 2000-2011, and most of them are gold.

Big Nog is an accomplished MMA adapted grappler. Werdum is an accomplished MMA adapted grappler who's one of the best ground fighters of all time.

Prime Minotauro was his equal in the grappling department.

He showed that in their first fight.

 

[Glove]

Arona and Monson have pretty good grappling credentials too.

I think Arona has never lost a round in ADCC or he may have lost only one.

And Monsons's grappling is extremely underrated and his grappling credentials are rather impresssive.

 

[Deleted member 391673]

do you remember how well Cormier dispatched Bigfoot?

fedor just stood and traded and got taken down. Cormier kept his distance and times his shots.


if he demonstrated any sort of gameplan and patience as he did in his last three fights, it could've been a different story.

I believe it had more to do with apathy and disinterest than being past his prime.

 

[kikikhan]

I think Arona has never lost a round in ADCC or he may have lost only one.

And Monsons's grappling is extremely underrated and his grappling credentials are rather impresssive.

Arona is undefeated at ADCC. He was a monster grappler.

Monson is a true stud.

He didn't show the respect for Werdum's guard, like he did for Minotauro's. It was quite clear.

As for Big Foot. Fedor didn't close the full guard on him, like he did it with Choi.

Fedor never used a closed ful guard before (I can't remember any other case than Choi), but used it vs Choi because he was too big for him to buck up. I guess, he misscalculated his own strength, which wasn't as insane as it used to be, and thought he will be able to buck up BF. He still showed great ground game by surviving the entire round of BF on top.

With Hendo, he didn't even try to grapple and was weaker than Hendo in that fight. Prime Fedor would have ragdolled Hendo and submitted him.

I can't believe people are actually trying to say that Fedor was the same as ever in 2009-2011.