Fedor > GSP p4p GOAT and it's not close

Enders said:
GSP IMO had a more impressive run at WW than Fedor did at HW. Not by a lot, but I think the competition GSP faced p4p was better. Now for why I think Fedor is better p4p. Fedor became the GOAT HW and not many dispute that, but Fedor is a natural LHW. Fedor dominated a weightclass that he really didnt belong in, while GSP did not face a single fighter bigger than himself. Just imagine GSP being as dominant, but at MW. What Fedor did puts him p4p well above anybody else.
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Now imagine if a featherweight moved up and koed GSP in round 1. GSP > Fedor
 
wilKO said:
My original post was that 233lbs was an optimal weight for HW. And all the evidence points towards that being true. You can't just create someone like Fedor but 265lbs.
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The word optimal implies the best possible. A peferct HW fighter would weigh in at 265lbs.
 
Enders said:
Bigger is better. The reason the 10 best are the 10 best is because the totality of their attributes, not just their size. If everything about Cro Cop was the same except he was 20 lbs bigger, he would be a better fighter.
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Are you aware of the concept of diminishing returns?
 
I don't think Fedor would have done as well at LHW as he did at HW. He might have, but I think its less likely hed have gone undefeated for so long. Plus he could not have built an aura like that beating LHWs. He always belonged at HW, he had the physical gifts for it.

Having said that, he is the GOAT. Still ahead of GSP, Silva, Jones. What he did at HW is still insane.
 
In The Name Of said:
GSP's list not only is longer but the fighters are more impressive IMO.
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Fedor did it in more impresssive fashion and has a more well rounded game, Could finish you from any position, standing, on top, on his back , wherever . Faster more explosive yet being 50lbs heavier. ask gsp who the GOAT is, he himself will say Fedor. Prime Fedor was like no other.
 
poorlytoldjoke said:
Are you aware of the concept of diminishing returns?
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Sure, but the athleticism of many 300 lb athletes in the world does not suggest that it reaches that point at 233 lbs. It would take a biologist and a physicist to determine how big a human is capable of being before they are too big to athletically function, but it is nowhere near 233 lbs. You get a billion person talent pool of 500lb men, the best guy would absolutely obliterate the best 233 lb guy.
 
GSP has fought and defeated the best competition of any "goat". Level of competition beaten is the only thing that I look at.
 
GSP
Fedor
Silva
Jones
Adlo


Could all easily be considered Goats. It's an opinion so that fact that you say "it's not even close" is completely stupid and absurd.
 
Enders said:
GSP IMO had a more impressive run at WW than Fedor did at HW. Not by a lot, but I think the competition GSP faced p4p was better. Now for why I think Fedor is better p4p. Fedor became the GOAT HW and not many dispute that, but Fedor is a natural LHW. Fedor dominated a weightclass that he really didnt belong in, while GSP did not face a single fighter bigger than himself. Just imagine GSP being as dominant, but at MW. What Fedor did puts him p4p well above anybody else.
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Fedor'Ss GREATEST WINS:
CroCop
Nog
GREATEST LOSSES: *None avenged
Hendo (middle weight)
Big Foot (many consioder B-level Fighter)
Werdum

GSP's GREATEST WINS:
A who's who of Welterweight greats
GREATEST LOSSES:
Serra (avenged and dominated)
Hughes (avenged and KOd)

Really, it's not even close :))
 
Enders said:
GSP IMO had a more impressive run at WW than Fedor did at HW. Not by a lot, but I think the competition GSP faced p4p was better. Now for why I think Fedor is better p4p. Fedor became the GOAT HW and not many dispute that, but Fedor is a natural LHW. Fedor dominated a weightclass that he really didnt belong in, while GSP did not face a single fighter bigger than himself. Just imagine GSP being as dominant, but at MW. What Fedor did puts him p4p well above anybody else.
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Alves, Condit, Shields, Hendricks, Koscheck are all bigger than GSP.

Shields was the MW champ in SF, he beat Henderson without controversy. Fedor fought a lot of bigger guys who weren't particularly good. Choi was bigger, but he got submitted by Minowa. Zulu is nothing to be proud off.

And Fedor is a natural HW. There's no reason to think he could have made 205 and still be as competitive.
 
How anyone can argue that a heavyweight can be the p4p is beyond me. Does no one else see the mile long gap between the skillsets of a Cain and DJ? Even at LHW there is still a huge gap. The hw's count on their ability to knock out their opponent and don't spend near the time and energy honing their skills as the lighter weightclasses. Just imagine Fedor at 135lbs fighting a TJ or Cruz, he would be completely lost and get destroyed. In my opinion no fighter over 170lbs is technically sound enough to be even considered in the p4p talk.
 
wilKO said:
Name me the 10 best HWs ever and show me 233lbs isn't in the optimal range...
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Rocky Marciano preferred to fight at around 185. He said he felt faster at that weight. But he was certainly the exception, as well as exceptional.
 
Enders said:
GSP IMO had a more impressive run at WW than Fedor did at HW. Not by a lot, but I think the competition GSP faced p4p was better. Now for why I think Fedor is better p4p. Fedor became the GOAT HW and not many dispute that, but Fedor is a natural LHW. Fedor dominated a weightclass that he really didnt belong in, while GSP did not face a single fighter bigger than himself. Just imagine GSP being as dominant, but at MW. What Fedor did puts him p4p well above anybody else.
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GSP was technically a much better fighter than Fedor. This must be the basis of any pound for pound discussion or comparison.

I don't think you can be considered pound for pound best by dominating the most shallow division and being less technically proficient. Changing or manipulating the definition to suit your needs doesn't alter anything. I don't think a heavyweight in any combat sport has ever been considered p4p and rightfully so. Fedor is the HW goat no doubt about it. You should be happy with that.

Once you start to dig into his record you'll see a period of 7 years of protected and so of suspect match ups. During that time he was offered the most advantageous match ups. He would end up on the losing end of 3 of them. Two of which were brutal losses. One of them against a middleweight. A heavyweight getting KTFO by a middle weight should end all discussion of P4P anything.
 
You shouldn't post not even close in title. Now ur credibility is shot and you reasoning doesn't matter.
 
freddygx said:
Rocky Marciano preferred to fight at around 185. He said he felt faster at that weight. But he was certainly the exception, as well as exceptional.
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185 may have been his optimal weight because of his frame.
 
nick a said:
How anyone can argue that a heavyweight can be the p4p is beyond me. Does no one else see the mile long gap between the skillsets of a Cain and DJ? Even at LHW there is still a huge gap. The hw's count on their ability to knock out their opponent and don't spend near the time and energy honing their skills as the lighter weightclasses. Just imagine Fedor at 135lbs fighting a TJ or Cruz, he would be completely lost and get destroyed. In my opinion no fighter over 170lbs is technically sound enough to be even considered in the p4p talk.
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You have to take into account square cube law. It's easier to move less mass around.
 
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