Crime FBI files show targeting of Catholic groups was bigger than Biden-era officials acknowledged

[White Whale]

FBI files show targeting of Catholic groups was bigger than Biden-era officials acknowledged

The Biden-era FBI concealed the extent of its anti-Catholic operation, which then-FBI Director Christopher A. Wray told Congress was limited to a single 2023 memo, according to newly revealed bureau documents.

www.washingtontimes.com

The Biden-era FBI concealed the extent of its anti-Catholic operation, which then-FBI Director Christopher A. Wray told Congress was limited to a single 2023 memo, newly revealed bureau documents show.

The FBI files were obtained by Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Charles E. Grassley and shared first with The Washington Times.

The files show that the agency was engaging in a bureauwide investigation of “Radical Traditionalist Catholics,” but Mr. Wray and other top FBI officials characterized it as a one-off memo.

The FBI declined to comment.

Mr. Grassley presented his findings to FBI Director Kash Patel in a letter Monday. The Iowa Republican expressed his concerns about the FBI’s handling and dissemination of an anti-Catholic memo under Mr. Wray and the agency’s lack of transparency and responsiveness to congressional inquiries about the matter.

The FBI under the Biden administration targeted Catholics more than they originally said and no one will likely be held accountable.

 

[Lycandroid]

Absolutely disgusting, separation of church and state doesn't just mean keeping religious influence out of government, it means the government shouldn't be enacting religious prosecution.

 

[HARRISON_3]

Kash Patel, one of the greatest FBI Directors…of the night.

 

[F1980]

I doubt they were targeting Mexican Catholics. For some reason, Liberals have this hard on against anything they seem related to "white" culture.

I've read articles where very prominent, Liberal leaning institutions target things that whites are good at.

I"ve seen articles where they say Mathematics is white supremacy, being on time to work is white supremacy, going to the gym is white supremacy, doing good in school is white supremacy, not doing crime is white supremacy, paying your bills on time is white supremacy, classical music is white supremacy, etc..

 

[Deorum]

I doubt they were targeting Mexican Catholics. For some reason, Liberals have this hard on against anything they seem related to "white" culture.

I've read articles where very prominent, Liberal leaning institutions target things that whites are good at.

I"ve seen articles where they say Mathematics is white supremacy, being on time to work is white supremacy, going to the gym is white supremacy, doing good in school is white supremacy, not doing crime is white supremacy, paying your bills on time is white supremacy, classical music is white supremacy, etc..

One of the biggest benefits of Hispanic immigration aside from work ethic (amongst Mexicans in particular) is that they tend to bring Catholicism with them. It works to counter-balance both the irreligious and Protestant majority, evangelicalism especially.

 

[Deorum]

Will Islam ever cross beyond the 1% threshold, @Islam Imamate? Will we ever have more Muslims than Jews in this country, FFS. I feel like it's been stuck in place for over a decade now, at least.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I doubt they were targeting Mexican Catholics. For some reason, Liberals have this hard on against anything they seem related to "white" culture.

I've read articles where very prominent, Liberal leaning institutions target things that whites are good at.

I"ve seen articles where they say Mathematics is white supremacy, being on time to work is white supremacy, going to the gym is white supremacy, doing good in school is white supremacy, not doing crime is white supremacy, paying your bills on time is white supremacy, classical music is white supremacy, etc..

They weren't targeting Catholics, they were targeting white supremacists and extremists with the memo pointing out that they're increasingly overlapping with what they deem to be Radical Traditionalist Catholics who they separate from mainline Catholics.

FBI Richmond assesses the increasingly observed interest of racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists (RMVEs) in radical-traditionalist Catholic (RTC)ideology almost certainly presents opportunities for threat mitigation through the exploration of new avenues for tripwire and source development. FBI Richmond makes this assessment with high confidence based on FBI investigations, local law enforcement agency reporting, and liaison reporting, with varying degrees of corroboration and access.

That's not to say that a memo that is reasonable on its face is necessarily implemented fairly but if you read the memo itself I don't see much objectionable there. For example part of this assessment was based on their investigations into specific individuals who were openly radical extremists who had clear red flags and were joining less mainstream Catholic orgs and churches. Some excerpts:

According to an FBI Richmond contact with direct access reporting for the first time, prior to RMVE actor ’s 2022 arrest he had been attending the Society of Saint Pius Xd(SSPX)-affiliated Virginia, for approximately seven months and was participating in catechism classes as part of the process to become baptized.1,2 Prior to attending stated he wanted to find a church that was “anti-Zionist” and “anti-progressive” because “that’s where God lives.”

In extensive anti-Semitic, anti-LGBTQ, and racist postings on the social media platform claimed was a “radical traditional Catholic Clerical Fascist.” At the time of arrest, eight Molotov cocktails, six smoke bombs, one smoke grenade, and firearms components consisting of a complete Glock 19 slide/upper receiver, a lower parts kit, a 3D printed Glock 19 frame, a magazine, and 9 mm ammunition were found in his possession.

According to an FBI Portland liaison contact with indirect access, as of September 2021, deceased RMVE subject Robert Reynolds had previously posted online that he first sought out a mainline Roman Catholic community that practiced the Novus Ordo liturgy and then gravitated to the SSPX. In a comment posted to an online discussion group Reynolds noted, “I've been trying to be catholic [sic] for 2 years I went to a novus ordo church at first then became radicalized by the internet after they told me to go away because of fake virus [sic].” Reynolds posted a photograph of himself outside of a Catholic church and several pictures from inside of the church captioned, “The holy sacrifice of the mass. Join the Catholic Taliban.” Reynolds also posted graphics depicting Jesus holding an assault rifle. Prior to his death, Reynolds was under investigation by FBI Portland for his involvement in civil disturbances, vandalism, threatening communications, weapons violations, and other acts of violence furthering his white supremacist ideology.

Investigating individuals who are openly radical and possibly violating laws around weapons and explosives strikes me as perfectly legitimate.

The memo does mention some barriers to what they call Racially Motivated Violent Extremists(RMVEs) and Radical Traditionalist Catholics(RTCs):

Ultimately, there may be limits to the level of engagement between RTCs and other far-right white nationalists. For example, many RTCs consider other forms of Christianity to be heretical and an over-emphasis on white US nationalism may be off-putting to RTCs of different ethnicities and countries of origin. Conversely, deep-seated anti-Catholicism remains a characteristic of many far-right white nationalists. Nonetheless, the current trend of RMVE interest in RTC ideology provides new opportunities to mitigate the RMVE threat through outreach to traditionalist Catholic parishes and the development of sources with the placement and access to report on RMVEs seeking to use RTC social media sites or places of worship as facilitation platforms to promote violence.

And also important caveats:

Potential criminality exhibited by certain members of a group referenced herein does not negate nor is it a comment on the constitutional rights of the group itself or its members to exercise their rights under the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The FBI does not investigate, collect, or maintain information on U.S. persons solely for the purpose of monitoring activities protected by the First Amendment.

Whether or not you believe the FBI here is a different story. Of course as a Muslim its not hard for me to understand how investigations into so called "extremism" might cross boundaries of appropriateness but I'd have to see that established and my faith in Congressional Republicans is pretty low so I certainly wouldn't take their word for it.

The article is suggesting that the agencies documents on the matter go beyond what the memo here states and if there is nefarious activity on the part of the FBI, hardly unbelievable from my POV, that should be investigated by Congress. But I would say that nothing in the memo would suggest that and that to call it an "anti-Catholic" memo strikes me as a misrepresentation of the document.

 

[milliniar]

They weren't targeting Catholics, they were targeting white supremacists and extremists with the memo pointing out that they're increasingly overlapping with what they deem to be Radical Traditionalist Catholics who they separate from mainline Catholics.

That's not to say that a memo that is reasonable on its face is necessarily implemented fairly but if you read the memo itself I don't see much objectionable there. For example part of this assessment was based on their investigations into specific individuals who were openly radical extremists who had clear red flags and were joining less mainstream Catholic orgs and churches. Some excerpts:


Investigating individuals who are openly radical and possibly violating laws around weapons and explosives strikes me as perfectly legitimate.

The memo does mention some barriers to what they call Racially Motivated Violent Extremists(RMVEs) and Radical Traditionalist Catholics(RTCs):

And also important caveats:

Whether or not you believe the FBI here is a different story. Of course as a Muslim its not hard for me to understand how investigations into so called "extremism" might cross boundaries of appropriateness but I'd have to see that established and my faith in Congressional Republicans is pretty low so I certainly wouldn't take their word for it.

The article is suggesting that the agencies documents on the matter go beyond what the memo here states and if there is nefarious activity on the part of the FBI, hardly unbelievable from POV, that should be investigated by Congress. But I would say that nothing in the memo would suggest that and that to call it an "anti-Catholic" memo strikes me as a misrepresentation of the document.

But the headlines confirm something Trump has said about Christians. Except we've had people even on the dog argue Catholics aren't Christian

 

[WuDi]

I'm not really religious, but the older I get the more I see that there is a very real separation between the good and the evil and that there is an actual battle of the two.

 

[Mr Holmes]

The Biden regime was one of the worst things to happen to this country.

 

[Khaosan]

BIDEN BAD!

 

[Stoic1]

Weaponized law enforcement during Biden's tenure?

 

[Darkballs]

If there was legitimate violations of the 1st Amendment, you would see a successful lawsuit.

You will never see one filed over this, because it's bullshit.

 

[oldshadow]

I don't think Biden had any idea what was going on.

Jill just gave him some ice-cream and told him her and "her people" would take care of anyone that needed fixing.

 

[Deorum]

They weren't targeting Catholics,

Correct.

They were targeting white supremacists and extremists with the memo pointing out that they're increasingly overlapping with what they deem to be Radical Traditionalist Catholics who they separate from mainline Catholics.

Only in their own minds. These are explicitly and overtly political groups, that's it. There is one church and no separating from the body of Christ. Catholicism is not the Prot shitshow of thousands of different denominations that have sown confusion and chaos for the last 500 years. Lol @ "organized religion bad".

Except we've had people even on the dog argue Catholics aren't Christian.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Correct.



Only in their own minds. These are explicitly and overtly political groups, that's it. There is one church and no separating from the body of Christ. Catholicism is not the Prot shitshow of thousands of different denominations that have sown confusion and chaos for the last 500 years. Lol @ "organized religion bad".

Yes exactly, Radical Traditionalist Catholics(RTCs) are not mainstream groups and they're not even the focus of the memo, the Racially Motivated Violent Extremists(RMVEs) are. And actually the memo encourages the agency to reach out to mainline churches so they can keep an eye out for these extremists.

Not going to act like this kind of initiative can't go badly but the controversy here seems to revolve around the fact that they acknowledged this connection at all despite the caveats. Maybe more comes out that will change my mind but for now looks like a nothingburger.

It's kind of a joke among some Catholics that people who convert in adulthood end up being a bit more radical and interested in esoteric historical debates rather than merely getting on as a Catholic. JD Vance is one such person. Nothing inherently wrong with that but I do think some problematic folks find cover among such fringe groups.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

It's kind of a joke among some Catholics that people who convert in adulthood end up being a bit more radical and interested in esoteric historical debates rather than merely getting on a a Catholic.

This is fairly common for any adult conversion of any religion. Like a new guy who found his people/group and wanted more than just to fit in.

 

[Islam Imamate]

This is fairly common for any adult conversion of any religion. Like a new guy who found his people/group and wanted more than just to fit in.

Yes very true, same thing happens in the Islamic community. Not unheard of to walk into a masjid and see a white guy with a full beard, skull cap, and thobe next to a clean shaven Pakistani uncle wearing jeans.

 

[Croo67]

They must destroy Christianity because it is what built civilisation.

 

[UberHere]

They must destroy Christianity because it is what built civilisation.

Brewing beer built civilization. No lie, even prior to farming. The dominant view among historians and scientists is that farming developed due to the demand for grains to brew beer.