Fall of the Roman Empire mirroring the West

[Islam Imamate]

I don't think everyone has abandoned morality, but a frightening number of our 320 mil citizens definitely have.

How so?

 

[M3t4tr0n]

Another sky is falling thread.

Pretty soon we will run out of sky.

 

[Leroy Jenkins]

Pretty soon we will run out of sky.

I guess it will be space then?

 

[PrinceOfPain]

I don't see how. If anything we've become more moral in many ways.

Sure, but depending on who's definition you're using, I'm sure we've abandoned many moral principles.

 

[Rod1]

Wouldn't that amount to the same thing?

I reject your morality, and substitute it with my own.

Vae victus

 

[Rational Poster]

Should we prepare for the goths attack or stop the spread of Christianity?

The thing with the Goths is that they were peaceful. The Romans made them hostile.

They were fleeing aggression from other barbarian tribes and only wanted a place to call their own safe from all the madness. The Romans promised them sanctuary, but then didn't give them any food or fertile land. They pressured them into service to fight the barbarians they were fleeing and used their hunger against them. Toward the end the Goths were selling their own children into slavery just to get some dog meat to eat.

They were forced into hostility by Roman arrogance and neglect.

 

[Irenaeus]

That title stinks to high heaven. Anybody got any cliffs on the main argument for those who don't have time for that shit?

Because as someone who has an above average interest and education relating to the late Roman empire, I'm pretty skeptical this comparison has much value.

 

[xenomorph4prez]

When Rome falls, falls the world

 

[Amerikuracana]

Our morality is in better shape today than ever. Misogyny is almost unacceptable and women's rights are improving, racism is down to a sliver of what it used to be, crime is down across the board, religions are losing power here, etc. All great things. There are some concerns with over-sentencing criminals and a pretty major concern about ownership of labor, but overall our moral situation is much better than it was when I was younger.

Right. Screw the family unit, women can have soul crushing sex with 80 people before marriage now, do some porn, and demean men at work and wherever they please, and that's what matters. Government and banks and billionaires taking power from community Churches is just without question the right moral direction. Not sure if crime is down "across the board" if you include Europe.. And its terrorism. Also, if crime is down in America, let's be honest, it just shows you how much urban crime there was before, and how little people talked about it. Because Chicago's crime statistics couldn't be much worse. I will say this, in an attempt to find agreement with you, my kids aren't looking to be quite as bad as we were, in some ways. Everything revolves around the schools and school spirit.. Which is kind of good, and also secretely kind of lame and pathetic in a way. It's a sign our kids will be sheep, but they aren't out being as bad as I was; at least my kids. But then, you look at the heroin numbers of teens, and even that goes out the window.

I like your positive outlook.

 

[panamaican]

You can really only compare the Roman empire or any empire with the West today to a very limited degree because of the advancement in communication.
I can basically communicate with everyone in the western world instantly, how long did it took the empire to deliver a message to the front for example.

Because of the communication we have access to today most issues the Romans had dont apply to us.

It's an important point. Once Rome reached a certain size, the ability of the Emperor to quickly respond to threats and challenges at the borders was dramatically reduced. This created opportunities for various rebellions and other actions that weakened the state.

Also the handover in power from one leader to another became less and less stable. Part of that was because the military was the only real way for people who weren't born into the aristocracy to achieve some measure of power. Also, the military was ultimately more loyal to their generals than to the state itself.

Only some of the things that led to the fall of Rome are applicable to us.

 

[MixMartialFarts]

Plus the UFC intro used to have that gladiator

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I guess it will be space then?

Frank Zappa: "The eons are closing!"

 

[IDL]

I think we're transitioning into a more overt global empire rather than a Western one.

The 'fall of the West' is part of that transition.

 

[MicroBrew]

Long ass video, but very interesting from an economical and historical standpoint. There really are so many similarities to our current situation once you analyse things carefully. I think the clearest one is over-reliance on central planning and abandonment of morality/self-discipline.

Re. bolded
Well that depends....As far as promiscuity and clothing goes I can see why a lot of people would think morality has gone down. But in other areas like a more equitable society, we are far more moral now. We don't have segregation anymore, women are more empowered and less restricted by societal demands on what a woman must be , gays and transgender are better off now , minorities have better say in things.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Sure, but depending on who's definition you're using, I'm sure we've abandoned many moral principles.

We've also abandoned morally repugnant ideas.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think we're transitioning into a more overt global empire rather than a Western one.

The 'fall of the West' is part of that transition.

How would the fall of the West be part of that transition when its the West that has advanced globalism more than anyone else? The fall of the West would set the globalist project back a hundred years at least.

 

[IDL]

How would the fall of the West be part of that transition when its the West that has advanced globalism more than anyone else? The fall of the West would set the globalist project back a hundred years at least.

It's not so much the West, as those in the drivers seat (private internationalists pushing globalism)

It's a small club. Sacrificing (or redistributing/reducing) some regions to gain the whole is just chess playing.

 

[panamaican]

Re. bolded
Well that depends....As far as promiscuity and clothing goes I can see why a lot of people would think morality has gone down. But in other areas like a more equitable society, we are far more moral now. We don't have segregation anymore, women are more empowered and less restricted by societal demands on what a woman must be , gays and transgender are better off now , minorities have better say in things.

In a thread about morality and the Roman Empire, we should disregard anyone who points to sexual promiscuity as indicative of Roman virtue.

The Romans were hedonists at many times throughout their history. They were fine with homosexuality and female promiscuity. They were also okay with cheating. So long as the aura of respectability was maintained, almost everything was okay behind closed doors.

 

[Rod1]

Right. Screw the family unit, women can have soul crushing sex with 80 people before marriage now, do some porn, and demean men at work and wherever they please, and that's what matters. Government and banks and billionaires taking power from community Churches is just without question the right moral direction. Not sure if crime is down "across the board" if you include Europe.. And its terrorism. Also, if crime is down in America, let's be honest, it just shows you how much urban crime there was before, and how little people talked about it. Because Chicago's crime statistics couldn't be much worse. I will say this, in an attempt to find agreement with you, my kids aren't looking to be quite as bad as we were, in some ways. Everything revolves around the schools and school spirit.. Which is kind of good, and also secretely kind of lame and pathetic in a way. It's a sign our kids will be sheep, but they aren't out being as bad as I was; at least my kids. But then, you look at the heroin numbers of teens, and even that goes out the window.

I like your positive outlook.

So we should look to the Romans for morality?

 

[Islam Imamate]

It's not so much the West, as those in the drivers seat (private internationalists pushing globalism)

No, its been the West. Namely France and Britain initially and more recently the US has taken the front seat. Sure corporate interests have aligned with this globalist agenda but its been pushed forth by the political class of these nations as well.

It's a small club. Sacrificing (or redistributing/reducing) some regions to gain the whole is just chess playing.

But why sacrifice the most stable region that also happens to be the seat of power for the multinational corporations and globalists?