Fake BBs - does it really matter?

i dont see how anyone could think it doesnt matter that there are bjj blak belt frauds out there...

No doubt.

It shouldn't even have to be spelled out. A black belt in BJJ represents so much. What it entitles the person that wears it to is far greater even than being able to teach, open a dojo, make money or even representing lineage.

I think the people that don't care are 18 year old amateur MMA fighters, posers (non grapplers) or just people that straight up suck at BJJ and are probably pussies in the most general sense of the word.

There are a few guys in my area that are fake BB's or guys that have promoted themselves, and they get no respect when their names are mentioned even if they have some legit skills on that mat.
 
I don't quite understand the internet's obsession with fake BBs in BJJ. As long as the guy isn't running a cult or ruining people's lives, does it really matter?

It matters to me. I hate people who try to get attention or respect when they deserve none. In fact, I think they deserve to be skewered publicly.

Just my $0.02
 
Anyone who is a fraud is a piece of shit. From Stolen Valor to fake BJJ Black Belts. The average Black Belt commits 10 yrs to earn that rank. Sure, you have Black Belts who can't teach worth a fuck, but they spent 10 yrs on the mat to earn the title Professor.

The mats don't lie and people should be called out. In my time I have meet a fake Brown belt and a fake Purple. People giving themselves rank once they cross state lines. Most people won't question it, but when you roll with them the truth always comes out.
 
Yes it does matter. It seems if they lie about their belt rank, they have other stuff too. Look at David Lang.

Trying to teach BJJ without knowing what you're doing could get someone seriously hurt or even possibly killed. Regarding black belts who aren't good teachers, I don't care. Teaching isn't for everyone and there are black belts with no interest in teaching.

I've had the same number (2) of purple belt instructors as black belt instructors. They were about equally good. I know some of you would refuse to learn under someone who's not a BB, but at least the purples were honest and their skills were at the purple level.
 
This has less to do with the fact that it's BJJ but rather that fraud is just bad, period.

And fraud is bad, period. Especially if it's something that can be as lucrative as having a BJJ black belt.
 
Again, unless they're fraudulently charging money for training they aren't qualified to give, I don't care.

That's what it's about.

Few fake expertise in a field just for kicks or for bragging rights. Frauds fake expertise in a field in order to capitalize on others' ignorance, just like that "black belt" in that Texas UFC Gym. He didn't fake being a black belt just to be the king shit at that gym, but instead he did so because he knew he could get a job coaching.
 
I've seen good students ruined by decent black belts who are shitty teachers. Shitty teachers who don't even know their fundamentals? Problematic for our whole community.
 
no laws against psychics and mediums conning money out of people... no punishment for the dudes who made up Scientology and Mormonism conmen

same for fake black belts who gives a shit...you should be intelligent enough to realise that and go somewhere else. survival of the fittest
 
no laws against psychics and mediums conning money out of people... no punishment for the dudes who made up Scientology and Mormonism conmen

same for fake black belts who gives a shit...you should be intelligent enough to realise that and go somewhere else. survival of the fittest

There is no way to disprove the claims made by psychics, whereas it is easy to verify and/or disprove the claims made by experts in a mundane field, such as mathematics, chemistry, or martial arts.

Also, not everyone starting out in martial arts is even aware that there ARE fraudulent teachers. Without a frame of reference for them to judge, how are those naive individuals to know what to look for in a fraudulent teacher?
 
There is no way to disprove the claims made by psychics, whereas it is easy to verify and/or disprove the claims made by experts in a mundane field, such as mathematics, chemistry, or martial arts.

Also, not everyone starting out in martial arts is even aware that there ARE fraudulent teachers. Without a frame of reference for them to judge, how are those naive individuals to know what to look for in a fraudulent teacher?

with regards to disproving paranormal/super natural claims: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

I agree not when they are first starting out...but after a while hearing stories from other people, watching other black belts in competition or instructional through vids etc an intelligent person will click on

how many times have you come to the conclusion a product is snake oil without knowing anything about said product? its part of being a rational person, its hard for you to be tricked and conned so easily imo

I know nothing about golf...give me a diabolically bad golf coach who claims to be pro and within a week I'l know if he is lying...as soon as he can't put from 5 feet, red lights will be flashing

I respect that the majority of people out there are dumb and will fall for such things as patronizing as that sounds its true...so for the majority maybe it matter if someone is a fake BB... in that case its probably a good idea to have some kind of governing body or some of the other recommendations made in this thread...for me personally it doesn't matter
 
It doesn't matter to me in terms of technique. The most technical instructors I've ever seen have been purple belts. I think blue belts are great self defense and amateur mma instructors when everything else is good.

What matters to me about it is that the fake black belt doesn't believe in himself enough and is trying to shore up that confidence with a song and dance. It is no different than any other insecure bragging. If they don't believe, it is hard for me to believe in them.

If anything, I think BJJ instructors should be working to diminish the focus on belts, not inflating their status by drawing attention to them.

Of course it matters! Blue belts are people who have just gotten the basics down, and purple belts are just starting to find their own game.

Diminishing the focus on belts is a terrible idea. As seen in the UFC gym video, just because someone claims to have a belt doesn't mean they do or have the ability to back up what they say. By diminishing the importance of belts, we allow clowns as seen in the video to be "instructors". Had that guy been legit, that video wouldn't exist.
 
If by exposing a fake BB a crappy instructor can get rid of it's a good things.
But it's also possible to someone has a legit black belt and bad jiu jitsu and will be wrecked by a excellent purple belt.
 
That's what it's about.

Few fake expertise in a field just for kicks or for bragging rights. Frauds fake expertise in a field in order to capitalize on others' ignorance, just like that "black belt" in that Texas UFC Gym. He didn't fake being a black belt just to be the king shit at that gym, but instead he did so because he knew he could get a job coaching.

I'm aware that fraudulently taking money from people is bad. I agree. I don't have an argument to offer about that, but that's a universal idea not specific to being a BJJ black belt. I don't like child molesters either. The fact that they might also be falsely claiming to be a black belt in BJJ is irrelevant.

I know, I know, I can hear the "But they use that distinction to lure people in!" argument already, which is true. But that, also, is not specific to being a BJJ black belt. A person could claim to be an expert in any field to lure people in and we would still hate them for it. If you would only hate them if they claimed to be a BJJ black belt, but not if they claimed to be an expert gymnast, then maybe we would be on the same page. Somehow I doubt that would be the case, however.

I'm just making a distinction between the two. I don't care whether or not someone claims they are an expert at anything. Claim away. You can either back it up or you can't. I DO care whether or not they do terrible and/or deceptive things. One is a presenting problem, one is a fundamental problem.

If the issue is just about being a black belt, then I would also have to take issue with a person who was using their fake belt to do positive things as well, and I wouldn't. The fundamental "problem" (what they were using their false claim to accomplish) in the scenario changed, while the presenting problem (their false claim) did not. That's why no one cares about the guy who claims he can bench 400lbs, because the claim isn't the problem.

Some people, however, take issue with people claiming to be a BJJ black belt because they somehow think it diminishes the hard work they put in to earn their own belt. I don't feel that. I also don't feel like the guy who claims to bench 400lbs is diminishing my ability to bench a lower weight.

Am I overthinking it? Probably. But human behavior is what I do for work and something that enjoy exploring, so sue me :)
 
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No one likes fraud. But quite frankly, very few people intentionally commit fraud. Think of it more as hyperbolic claims on a resume, which our social order generally encourages.

Also keep this in mind: a fraudulant black belt, after being a fraud for 10 years, will probably be at about the level of a blackbelt (though not a very good one).

As far as them teaching wrong/faulty techniques... that just no-sense. Everyone can get access to MGinaction or Ryan Hall DVDs (on which he claims most BBs are 'teaching it wrong').

And there's plenty of legit instructors teaching shitty, out-dated techniques, or that just spend too much time on youtube. Their black belt doesn't give them mystical powers, nor does it make them good people.

The BJJ world is filled with false/misleading advertising, which can easily be labeled as fraud.
 
Also keep this in mind: a fraudulant black belt, after being a fraud for 10 years, will probably be at about the level of a blackbelt (though not a very good one).

Counter example: Ari Bolden
 
Of course it matters. Someone claiming a fake rank is basically saying "I think your efforts were worthless. The hardship you went through means nothing. The skill you have means nothing. I, as an untrained individual, deserve equal merit in your art by virtue of wearing the same belt".

Do people not realise the miles that get placed on your body (and car), the time away from family, exercising, injuries, rehab, comps, $$$ etc?

It's a slap in the face. Fuck off with that shit. You are not equal, you will never be equal. You deserve ridicule and scorn.
 
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Also keep this in mind: a fraudulant black belt, after being a fraud for 10 years, will probably be at about the level of a blackbelt (though not a very good one).

i just can't get behind this at all. If you taught yourself a language via listening to tapes, your language skills will be vastly inferior to someone who has learned the language from a native speaker. and they issues you have with your skills will not magically go away - your accent and diction will not magically improve - just because you keep speaking incorrectly for 10 years. it will not improve until someone else comes along and corrects it.

not a perfect metaphor, i know.
 
I can't believe someone would actually seriously ask this question.

Of course it matters! A BJJ Black Belt is someone who dedicated years or even decades to the art of BJJ, and have sacrificed much to reach their rank. They honor their instructors by being upstanding people (although a lot of folks are still working on that!) and by carrying on the long tradition and high bar set in the art.

For someone to go on ebay, buy a belt and then start taking money to pass these physical and personal skills to people who think they are learning from a legit source is just awful and I'm ashamed for anyone who just goes "Meh, who cares about fake BJJ black belts".
 
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