Discussion in 'The Lightweights' started by ask, Dec 21, 2016.
discuss this fact
I love hearing how Flyweight is so 'technical' when the top two contenders (Cejudo and Benavidez) are wrestlers with rudimentary striking. Cejudo is actually a pretty awful wrestler in the context of MMA, failing to take and hold down guys like Camus, Benavidez, and Kimura.
Benavidez is also very sloppy with his striking, and is only effective because he hits hard for a Flyweight. Hitting hard is not unique to Flyweight, and bigger weight classes have harder hitters.
Aside from Mighty Mouse and Horiguchi, Flyweight doesn't really have super fast, athletic powerhouses, especially now that Dodson left.
Makovsky, Bagautinov, Ortiz, Cejudo, Moraga, McCall etc... are all just wrestlers with some serviceable striking (at best, Ortiz and Makovsky suck at striking) Fighters like Romero, Weidman, Woodley, Cormier, Rumble, Jones, Bader, Davis, etc... are all wrestlers with much more varied skill sets in both striking and grappling.
What makes this funny is that a guy who has trouble with Flyweights (Lineker) have been tearing it up at 135, and may be knocking out the former champ soon. His only difficult fight came against a former Flyweight (Dodson), who holds a win against the former champ.
The myth that the smaller weight classes are the more skilled NEEDS TO STOP. There's diminishing returns to both ends. Flyweight is thin and weak, as is Heavyweigjt. Golden weight classes have always been 145-205 (MW was weak for a long time)
LW is the shit!!
LW is always super-stacked. BW is pretty dang sweet right now too.
Your general understanding of the bell curve nature of things is right. The average athletic American/Brazilian man is a LW (about 5'9"-5'10" and 170ish lbs) so 155 is the deepest, followed by 145 and 170 as we move away from that fat centre of the bell curve.
But while 205 has always been a marquee weight class due to the spectacle of big boys cracking each other, talent-wise it's been shallow as fuck too, hence nonsense like Shogun and Rampage getting title shots on 2-win streaks, or Jones defending against consecutive 185ers or Gus getting a shot off a R1 KO loss.
True, 205 has been shallow and weak outside the top 5 in recent years, but it's been home to the most well rounded and skilled fighters of the past decade(s). No other weight class can say that
name top 10 LW fighters (in the UFC) now please
The flyweight's being "more skilled" is absurd. This was a myth born with Mir and Rogan that is perpetrated all the time. Who has the grappling of Maia at FW? Who has the striking of Conor? Who has the wrestling of Khabib or the movement of Lando? I think the most skilled division are the divisions where the normal sized guys fight, because that is where the highest percentage of men are.
I also think that it is so shallow that it is almost like women's MMA. Member when people were saying Ronda was the #1 P4P fighter in the world? Yeah, I member. MM is arguably as lucky as Ronda, who also largely racked up title defenses by fighting people that were rushed into championship fights too soon, fighting the same people multiple times or just competition that did not deserve in the ring with her. Truly developed divisions like LW, WW and MW are what truly developed division looks like, with the belt rotating multiple times in a year and were average sized men fight, not freakishly big men or freakishly small manlets.
Well, that's not how talent pools work. To become a Top 5 fighter at 205 you naturally fight and are tested by fewer high quality fighters than a Top 5 FW/LW/WW fighter is, so you're not going to be as well-rounded or as skilled as those who reach the top of the deeper divisions.
You can appear to be more well-rounded or skilled at 205 because you're in a shallow division and it's easier to look good in a shallower division, because the opponents are generally of a lower quality, but that's not the same as actually being more well-rounded or skilled.
The most skilled and well-rounded fighters will almost always be in those deeper talent pools because of that. For example Daniel Cormier is the #2 LHW of the past half decade or so and the 145 lb division has four or five fighters as well-rounded and skilled as he is, or moreso. A fighter on the level of a Forrest Griffin, bless him, never makes the Top 5 of FW, LW or WW, let alone becomes a champion who has wins over other former champions.
From Sherbro to Sherbro I advise you to don't doubt LW. Your thread will explode.
I'm more interested in the divisions from WW upward.
I'm doubting LW because there's ~5 notable fighters in that division and the rest are no-namers.
This. what a crap thread. ts to name the top ten ww's.
Ban TS for being retarded
Bantamweight is on the mother fucking rise. LEGIT prospects and looking like FW from the past 2 years.
Flyweight also has some nice prospects not only from TUF but from recent cards like that boxing stud from Philippines.
you're both welcome to prove me wrong, though. (not that you could)
Already did. Eat shit.
lmao, no you didn't. I specifically asked for a list of the top 10 current LWs in the UFC yet none of you have been able to compile a list because in reality there are about 5 top guys in that division and then there is a significant decline in terms of depth of talent. same the with the rest of the sub-157 weight classes (minus FW)
"With the exception of FW" While the guy who was ranked number 5 at FW has yet to get a win over a top 10 opponent at LW and I don't think he will with killers like Chiesa, Diaz, Johnson, and Barboza above him.
The UFC Rankings or my personal rankings? I could do both if you want but my personal rankings are:
There's also some tough dudes out side the top 10 like Jim Miller, Dustin Poirier, Al Iaquinta, etc.
You have unrealistic expectations and a shitty appreciation for technique and talent. You need to remember you are an unathletic nerd sitting at home.
I'm sorry, but who exactly has chiesa beaten? who have miller and poirier beaten? MJs only notable win is over barboza, both RDA and melendez are on losing streaks (2 and 3 loses respectively) and diaz is a veritable gatekeeper who competes @ both WW and LW.
this wasn't the question I asked but thank you for trying.