exercises / good ways to strengthen your (lower) back .. ?

[ozzie]

Thanks again, and I just realized who you are. Welcome back.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Being a professional fighter and full time wrestler, I have put alot of thought and research into this. I used to think only doing weighted exercise was best because you get maximal efficiency in minimal time. Over time, I talked to my coaches and S&C coaches, experimented, and watched what the Eastern Europeans were doing and changed my mind. For me, when it comes to stand up posture or striking, there is no better exercise than static/dynamic supermans. This helps your lower back in check better than weights because you are never really doing much dynamic, full ROM movements when you are striking.

For wrestling and jiu-jitsu however, when it hits the ground, things like deads and good mornings are so, so important, because basically everything you are doing on the ground (at least for my style and technique set in wrestling and jiu-jitsu) is very dynamic.

Now I spend the majority of my time still doing weighted exercises, because they take longer, and they help build move specific stregnth. However, supermans are just as important. I do them more frequently, and they dont take more than 4 minutes per day.

 

[miaou]

Being a professional fighter and full time wrestler, I have put alot of thought and research into this. I used to think only doing weighted exercise was best because you get maximal efficiency in minimal time. Over time, I talked to my coaches and S&C coaches, experimented, and watched what the Eastern Europeans were doing and changed my mind. For me, when it comes to stand up posture or striking, there is no better exercise than static/dynamic supermans. This helps your lower back in check better than weights because you are never really doing much dynamic, full ROM movements when you are striking.

For wrestling and jiu-jitsu however, when it hits the ground, things like deads and good mornings are so, so important, because basically everything you are doing on the ground (at least for my style and technique set in wrestling and jiu-jitsu) is very dynamic.

Now I spend the majority of my time still doing weighted exercises, because they take longer, and they help build move specific stregnth. However, supermans are just as important. I do them more frequently, and they dont take more than 4 minutes per day.

By "supermans" you are referring to the exercise where you lie on the floor and lift arms and legs (or combinations thereof) while hyper-extending your lower back?

 

[dnj23]

Barbell rows done standing, standing overhead presses, partial and full deads.

Heavy weights and standing, no comfy seated positions.

 

[Dirty Holt]

By "supermans" you are referring to the exercise where you lie on the floor and lift arms and legs (or combinations thereof) while hyper-extending your lower back?

Yes. I usually do static holds for about 2 minutes then a set of 20 up and down. I only do about 3 sets a day or every other day.

 

[miaou]

Yes. I usually do static holds for about 2 minutes then a set of 20 up and down. I only do about 3 sets a day or every other day.

If you have lower-back issues then chances are you are making your condition worse with this exercise.

If you have no lower-back issues, then, depending on your posture and your overall training program, you might be increasing your injury risks by using this exercise as a main tool for lower-back strengthening.

Just fyi, not meaning to attack you personally or anything.

 

[BlackPowder]

Thanks for all the answers guys, some good stuff.

Well, i train at home and not at a gym.. what i have to train with is like i said a set of dumbells, and i will buy a barbell with weights, too.

So ill definitely be doing squads, deadlifts (and variations) and good mornings.. hyperextensions might be possible, too; but i doubt that ill be able to do glute ham raises or pulll throughs..

are deadlifts, squads, good mornings and hyper extensions enough.. ?

what i am a little confused about, though .. @ miaou:

why are supermans bad for your back, or bad if you have lower back issues?

Dont hyperextensions have a smiliar movement .. ?

 

[Baconator69**]

for a good laugh

will deadlifts increase my waistline? - Bodybuilding.com Forums

I have a naturally blocky waist. It's like 42 inches. My oblique muscles are huge. I tried deadlifting last week, and was able to pull 455. I like the exercise, but I'm trying to lose fat and not have such a blocky waist. Seems like deadlifts would make this worse, because they would increase the size of my already large obliques. Is this true?



LOL

 

[PariahSmithee]

If you have lower-back issues then chances are you are making your condition worse with this exercise.

If you have no lower-back issues, then, depending on your posture and your overall training program, you might be increasing your injury risks by using this exercise as a main tool for lower-back strengthening.

Just fyi, not meaning to attack you personally or anything.

Explain please. I'm believe in the S&P style...but how would supermans increase the risk of injury in a healthy person.

 

[miaou]

what i am a little confused about, though .. @ miaou:

why are supermans bad for your back, or bad if you have lower back issues?

Dont hyperextensions have a smiliar movement .. ?

Explain please. I'm believe in the S&P style...but how would supermans increase the risk of injury in a healthy person.

The ROM of the supermans exercise is from neutral to hyper-extender lumbar spine position. There are two specific problems with this.

Hyper-extension of the spine results in a mechanically unfavorable alignment of the vertebrae (meaning there is an uneven distribution of force in the intervertebral discs). It is the same thing that happens with spinal flexion, and they will both put uneven pressure on the spine, increasing the risk of injury.

The proper function of the spinal erectors (as well as the rest of the core muscles in relation to the lumbar spine) is not to create motion in the lumbar spine, it is to create stability, so that force can be transfered through the spine in a safe way.

For instance, when you are squatting, motion is generated by your lower-body, your spinal erectors (and the rest of your core muscles) function in an isometric way in order to keep your lumbar spine in proper alignment for the force to be safely transfered to the upper back and through the upper back to the barbell. So in the kinetic chain, the function of the lumbar erectors is not to generate motion, it is to provide/generate stability. If the lumbar spine stays in proper alignment then the force can be transfered both with greater efficiency as well as with greater safety.

The above is just one example, but the same principle follows for all movements. In rotational movements (the TS mentioned practicing MT, which is full of those) the spinal erectors will still want to stabilize the lumbar spine, not provide motion (which needs to be provided by movement on the hips instead). Rotation while the spine is in hyper-extension is a great way to increase the risk of suffering a spondylolysis injury. The general idea is that in any normal function of the body there needs to be stability, not mobility, in the lumbar spine. Any exercises that reinforce lumbar spine mobility can reinforce an improper function to the spinal erectors.


The second problem is that the majority of people with lower-back issues tend to have some degree of anterior pelvic tilt (APT). APT increases the risk of injury because it constantly places the lumbar spine in an unsafe position (extension/hyper-extension). This condition can be worsened by using "supermans" as a main tool for lower-back strengthening, because due to it's ROM (from neutral to hyper-extension) it will contribute to the spinal erectors getting shorter/stiffer. Which is a symptom and contributing factor to APT. Doing a lot of situps can also worsen this condition btw, by contributing to hip flexor shortening/stiffening.


When "back hypers" (hyperextensions) or "45

 

[Tosa]

Some people advocate unweighted hyper-extensions with the lumbar spine going from flexion to hyper-extension as a means to sort of "lubricate the intervertebral discs" (this is supposed to be a light exercise, if unweighted hypers are challenging to you then I advise against it).

I agree entirely with your post, but I thought I'd add to this bit in particular. Rather than Bw hyper extensions for this purpose, I prefer an exercise (I don't remember what it's called) where, while on your hands and knees, you slowly move your lower back from flexion to extension, and back again for several reps.

 

[NinjaBlack]

Great information in this thread.

TS, come back in a month and explain how you feel.

 

[DannyT]

Thanks for the explanation Miaou. I'm just worried about my back because back in the day I used to hundreds and hundreds of situps. Now my lower back is just fucked up and when I do situps, bicycle crunches or lying ab exercises of any sort, my lower back gives me a achy feeling and I have to stop. I even get this while doing mountain climbers. Is this a matter of strengthening my lower back? If so, which exercise would be best (note I cannot access weights right now)? 45 degree back extensions on swiss ball?

 

[PariahSmithee]

Thanks for the interesting response miaou.

 

[BlackPowder]

Woow, thanks a lot, really good explanation @ Miaou

But yeah just be sure that i really understood it:

So, the most important thing is basically that whenever you do an exercise to strengthen your back, you do it with your back in a neutral, straight position, to keep the pressure on the spine evenly distributed. Also you will want to do these exercises in a way in which the back muscles (spinal erectors) have to create stability and not a movement (mobility) because this is what they are actually there for, to stabilize and reinforce your spine and keep the risk of injury low that way.. .. and thats why supermans are not ideal, because by doing them you train your spinal erectors for mobility which will actually increase the risk of a back injury because it puts uneven pressure on your spine and contributes to an unsafe position of your lumbar spine..



And then i have another question, you also say that situps are bad for your lower back too, and because of your awesome explanation i also understand why. But if sit ups and crunches are bad for your lower back, what other abs exercises CAN you do? Are there any ab exercises who are not bad for your lower back then? I can only think of leg lifts right now..


Ok now about putting a back workout together. I think i will be able to do deadlifts, squats and good mornings as well as back extensions and reverse hypers.

How often would i do a workout containing these exercises, 3 times a week?

And how many sets with how many reps each?

Thanks again for all the great info everyone!

 

[Bright5086200]

Deadlift often. Do high and low reps. twice a week. I know many ppl think im wrong, but do monday speed sets. like 8 sets of 3 with only 135. Than go friday for a heavy day and you'll see that you are much quicker and explosive.

so all in all your gaining strength AND speed in your lower back!

 

[miaou]

DannyT and BlackPowder,

Generally speaking, doing crunches with both feet touching the floor will place your lumbar spine in less stress, as long as you don't lift your lower back off the floor (which will mean any ROM will come from movement on your thoracic spine), and will also have less hip flexor involvement, as long as you don't add weight on your feet/legs (or lock them against something). If there is pain/discomfort it goes without saying that you don't want to do it. Personally I don't see much reason for crunches, unless I want a simple exercise for a beginner who is really weak overall.

I you need to target the abs with more than the big lifts (squat/deadlift) and their variations (front squats and overhead squats are great for ab strength for instance), some exercises that target the abs in a proper fashion are planks (end the set once you can no longer maintain a neutral lumbar spine position), side planks, wheel/bar roll-outs (again make sure you maintain neutral lumbar spine position) and reverse crunches. Btw, "leg lifts" is a great way to work on your hip flexors, I would generally advise against them.


Danny, some ways to strengthen the lower-back at home are good mornings (you can find ways to add weight even without a barbell or dumbbells), romanian deadlifts (you can really hold on to anything heavy to add weight for this one), a "homemade version" of glute-ham raises (for example try sticking your feet under a couch and fold and place a yoga mat right below your knees; assist by pushing on your way up if needed), or even "bird dogs".


BP, keep in mind that your kinesthetic sense might sometimes require you to think you are trying to go for hyper-extension. In squats, for example, you want to have a neutral lumbar spine at the top position with full hip extension (hips "pushed forward"), but as you go down you might actually be trying to extend your lower back, simply to keep it neutral. At the bottom position you may be actively trying to hyper-extend your lower back, which basically would be another way of saying "do your best to avoid getting into lumbar flexion".

 

[Bumbaclaat]

well i think my abdominal muscles are strong enough, we do a hundred sit ups every training session which is 3 - 4 times a week and i do lots of crunches and sit ups for myself, too..

skip the sit ups and get the form of your crunches checked.
maybe you want to change the crunches for turkish getups.

i was quite excessive with crunches for a few months.
but when my back started hurting i reduced them to less than half and started doing the turkish get ups.
now my back is ok again and my abs are still fine.

 

[PariahSmithee]

So Miaou, when Dick Hartzell raps a band from one knee around the back to the ohter knee, gets on his hands and knees and starts arching, rounding, contorting, writhiing his back you are saying he is making his back MORE prone to injury instead of prehabing it.

 

[miaou]

So Miaou, when Dick Hartzell raps a band from one knee around the back to the ohter knee, gets on his hands and knees and starts arching, rounding, contorting, writhiing his back you are saying he is making his back MORE prone to injury instead of prehabing it.

I've seen some videos of DH, although I am not sure I've seen the video you are describing.

From your description it sounds like something between some sort of spinal decompression moves, and what Tosa described in his last post. I guess I can see a point as how that could help with spinal health in terms of "maintenance".

So while this may sort of "keep the intervertebral discs from being compressed" (to a certain extent), I don't see how it could have any benefits in terms of training effects, to strengthen the supporting muscles and instill proper posture habits (proper coordination of the core muscles, glutes and hamstrings) in order to avoid injury.

I don't think DH would disagree with this, if he does then it would be interesting to see how he supports his opinion.