Social POTWR 2019 Vol 3: Examining Opioid Addiction In America

[Tufts]

EDIT:
Eric Church wrote the song Homeboy with someone else about his brother's fight with alcoholism and though Give Me Back My Hometown is several years old his brother recently passed away from seizures related to chronic alcohol withdrawal. So, the dude gets addiction and has seen it first hand is why I included the song.

This is one of my favorite songs by EC. I didn't realize it was about addiction. I will need to give it a closer listen instead of just singing along automatically.

 

[Tufts]

As for the surgery, it went pretty rocky. They had to to two nerve blocks after the first one did not take. The second one was not completely successful either. I should have been unconscious all day, but was able to walk out on my own after the surgery. The cold compression machine malfunctioned and they are bringing me a new one tomorrow, but that does not help me right now. I had a little over an hour of relief from four Percocets, but don’t want to take any more even though they have worn off. The only good news is that they did not have to reattach anything and just shaved down the joint. It just hurts like a motherfucker right now.

I'm so sorry. I don't even know what to say. Your pain levels sound way too high for alternative medicines to have much of an impact right now. Once the area calms down, maybe you could try some CBD. It does pretty good anti-inflammatory work. I also really, really recommend acupuncture. If you have never tried it, I strongly suggest you give it a try. And give it a few appointments with different practitioners if the one you are seeing does not seem to be making a difference. It really saves me. I have found it works especially well with hip, neck and back pain.

 

[Gregolian]

This is one of my favorite songs by EC. I didn't realize it was about addiction. I will need to give it a closer listen instead of just singing along automatically.

Yeah, you listen to the lyrics you can tell he's talking about a hometown that's been ravaged by SOMETHING and with the way the video plays out it's obvious it's linked to addiction/criminal shit.

Homeboy is about his brother's own demons

 

[Tufts]

I think you had way more guts to not die.

Thank you. It was a really rough time. I also had no idea how debilitating and undermining pain could be. Fortunately I loved my family enough not to give up. I hope to never experience that type of darkness again.

 

[nhbbear]

Thank you. It was a really rough time. I also had no idea how debilitating and undermining pain could be. Fortunately I loved my family enough not to give up. I hope to never experience that type of darkness again.

Pain just wears you down. I rarely have really severe pain, but it is a constant low level to moderate level that doesn’t leave. It beats me down and most of my depression is from the pain.

Right now, I am one day out from shoulder surgery, and that is a whole new level of pain. Just moving my arm to adjust causes me to yelp. And this is minor compared to when they fixed this shoulder three years ago. And i don’t want to take enough pain meds to keep it in check, but damn does it hurt.

 

[nhbbear]

I'm so sorry. I don't even know what to say. Your pain levels sound way too high for alternative medicines to have much of an impact right now. Once the area calms down, maybe you could try some CBD. It does pretty good anti-inflammatory work. I also really, really recommend acupuncture. If you have never tried it, I strongly suggest you give it a try. And give it a few appointments with different practitioners if the one you are seeing does not seem to be making a difference. It really saves me. I have found it works especially well with hip, neck and back pain.

I used to do acupuncture once a week, but insurance wouldn’t cover it, so it was $50 a pop. I have also gone the dry needling approach. They were both beneficial, but not for what I had to pay. Luckily, there is a chiropractor that only charges me $10 a visit. His father was one of my supervisors early in my career. The week that he retired, he was killed by a drunk driver going the wrong way on the highway. He was driving in one vehicle, his family behind him. His son, the chiropractor, saw his father get killed and was the first to get to him. It was horrible. Every once in a while, I share stories with him.

My favorite was when I was working a bar job, and a woman saw her boyfriend dancing with another girl. She went to throw a drink on him and hit me instead. I threw her out of the bar and she kept coming back. She went after him and I grabbed her and she hit me. Normally, I would have arrested her, but while working a bar job, if you make an arrest, you tie up a unit and have to leave the bar unattended. So I dragged her out, kicking and screaming, and she tried to spit in my face. I admit that I should have remained professional, but with everything that she did, I lost my cool and callled her a “fucking cunt.” I pushed her out of the bar and pulled out pepper spray as a warning to stop. She began screaming and was kicking cars and got arrested by a unit that was driving by. The sergeant(the chiropractor’s father) came to the bar and asked me what happened. I told him, and also said I did not want to tie up a car with my arrest. He asked me(as a test, I think) I’d I called her a cunt. I told him i did. He asked me why and I said “sir, I didn’t think bitch quite covered it.” He laughed and said “good answer, she is a cunt.” I never use that word, but she earned it.

Another time, we responded to a suicidal guy with a gun. The door was locked and he wasn’t answering. The sergeant ordered me to go to his vehicle to get a pry bar. It was seven flights of stairs and no elevator. We couldn’t kick the door because it was a narrow landing with the bannister and a long fall outside of the door. I asked him if I could try getting the door open. I was young, during my first year, and this was before I had back problems. So I grabbed the door handle and pulled until I could get my hand in the door. I was able to break the door in half. The sergeant was impressed, and brought that up when I was getting teased about badly losing a foot pursuit(not my strong suite). He said “unless you guys can rip a door in half like he did, you should probably shut the hell up.” I miss that man.

 

[Tufts]

Pain just wears you down. I rarely have really severe pain, but it is a constant low level to moderate level that doesn’t leave. It beats me down and most of my depression is from the pain.

Right now, I am one day out from shoulder surgery, and that is a whole new level of pain. Just moving my arm to adjust causes me to yelp. And this is minor compared to when they fixed this shoulder three years ago. And i don’t want to take enough pain meds to keep it in check, but damn does it hurt.

I feel ya. I live with daily pain too. On good days it is a 4/10, on bad it gets up to 9.... I refuse to say I have felt a 10. Call it wishful thinking. I'd like to think amputation would be worse. But I have felt periods of pain that make my eyes wanna cross and my brain shut down. My anxiety and depression get triggered by the pain too. And my main issue is that I keep learning new ways to trigger it. The ultimate in first world problems was when riding in high winds in my convertible caused my neck and shoulder to go out for about a month, just from the minor subconscious neck adjustments to the wind. No joke. So I adjust. Now I ride with the windows up and my back pressed firmly against the back of the seat with a scarf around my neck. I just never know what will trigger it next. My neck is so unstable that it doesn't take much. That is when I get depressed, when I feel like I am being mindful yet manage to mess myself up anyways.

What kind of shoulder surgery did you have? I had a labral tear that I had fixed surgically a year ago. It sucked. I had to fly to a different island to get the surgery and they gave me a nerve block so I could handle the pain flying home. The meds made me sicker than shit and I had to take antinausea meds to keep the pain meds and water down. It was pretty freaking awful. The recovery took forever. I thought I would never be done with physical therapy. It still hurts sometimes, but I have finally bounced back.

 

[Tufts]

I used to do acupuncture once a week, but insurance wouldn’t cover it, so it was $50 a pop. I have also gone the dry needling approach. They were both beneficial, but not for what I had to pay. Luckily, there is a chiropractor that only charges me $10 a visit. His father was one of my supervisors early in my career. The week that he retired, he was killed by a drunk driver going the wrong way on the highway. He was driving in one vehicle, his family behind him. His son, the chiropractor, saw his father get killed and was the first to get to him. It was horrible. Every once in a while, I share stories with him.

My favorite was when I was working a bar job, and a woman saw her boyfriend dancing with another girl. She went to throw a drink on him and hit me instead. I threw her out of the bar and she kept coming back. She went after him and I grabbed her and she hit me. Normally, I would have arrested her, but while working a bar job, if you make an arrest, you tie up a unit and have to leave the bar unattended. So I dragged her out, kicking and screaming, and she tried to spit in my face. I admit that I should have remained professional, but with everything that she did, I lost my cool and callled her a “fucking cunt.” I pushed her out of the bar and pulled out pepper spray as a warning to stop. She began screaming and was kicking cars and got arrested by a unit that was driving by. The sergeant(the chiropractor’s father) came to the bar and asked me what happened. I told him, and also said I did not want to tie up a car with my arrest. He asked me(as a test, I think) I’d I called her a cunt. I told him i did. He asked me why and I said “sir, I didn’t think bitch quite covered it.” He laughed and said “good answer, she is a cunt.” I never use that word, but she earned it.

Another time, we responded to a suicidal guy with a gun. The door was locked and he wasn’t answering. The sergeant ordered me to go to his vehicle to get a pry bar. It was seven flights of stairs and no elevator. We couldn’t kick the door because it was a narrow landing with the bannister and a long fall outside of the door. I asked him if I could try getting the door open. I was young, during my first year, and this was before I had back problems. So I grabbed the door handle and pulled until I could get my hand in the door. I was able to break the door in half. The sergeant was impressed, and brought that up when I was getting teased about badly losing a foot pursuit(not my strong suite). He said “unless you guys can rip a door in half like he did, you should probably shut the hell up.” I miss that man.

It sure is nice when you find that kind of practitioner. I've been lucky to have some folks hook me up in the past when I really needed it. My acupuncturist here is actually incredibly generous and I have to make her let me pay her half the time. I know her financial situation though and she is the perfect example of helping others at her own expense. Now my needs are so chronic, that I just decided I would pay whatever I had to pay. I've cut other stuff that doesn't have as direct an impact on my health and happiness. The difference between how I feel with the treatments I get is really quite astounding. The other thing that helps is when I don't work. I have summers off as a teacher, and the difference in how I feel is like night and day. Sometimes Imagine how I would feel with all the treatments I wanted while living a life of leisure. Traveling, acupuncture and massage are the only things I wish I had more money to spend on.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Saying there have been 19 recorded deaths isn't that useful if there have only been 5000 recorded treatments. One study estimated mortality rate at 1 out of every 300 treatments. That sounds horrible. Without controlled studies, the risks can only be based on these increasing case reports of cardiac arrest and death. Why rush to use something that appears to be very risky when there are plenty of other safe, proven methods to detox people? Don't understand this line of thinking at all.

Non-sense. 19 recorded deaths. That means every use of the drug, not 5000 recorded treatments.


Where is your source for 1 out of every 300?

You say rush. This was discovered in the 60's.

 

[Lubaolong]

Non-sense. 19 recorded deaths. That means every use of the drug, not 5000 recorded treatments.


Where is your source for 1 out of every 300?

You say rush. This was discovered in the 60's.

How would you know the outcome of every use of a street drug? Since it is illegal or unregulated in most countries, there is no accurate account of the prevalence of adverse effects/deaths.

The 1 death out of 300 uses came from a study I saw listed on Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies’ (MAPS) page about ibogaine. This was based on the number of fatalities having occurred within the 3611 recorded treatments the authors examined. This, the increasing number of case reports of cardiac arrest, and halted phase 1 trial are the only real data points we have.

 

[nicapica]

Yes, I do believe that program only trades one addiction for another. From my experience, the percentage of people who actually succeed in the program and not relapse are rare, very rare. I have seen more abuse of the program than success stories by far. Some of the participants try to get the medication from our facility and sneak it out with them to sell. Most also continue to use even when in the program. I could not tell you how many people have been booted from the program for continued substance use while being in the MAT program. Some of course do complete the program. However, the majority relapse within a few months and come right back to us. In my opinion, a detox followed by continued outpatient treatment services are necessary. Addiction consumes people. This includes daily living habits, relationships, hobbies, etc. Say for example, someone always gets high and cleans house. Every time that person goes to clean house, they are going to associate that activity with drug use. Another example would be the cigarette smoker who always has a smoke with their morning coffee. Having a morning coffee will be associated with having that smoke for years, if not forever. This association will likely cause a craving for that cigarette. So for someone to battle addiction, multiple facets of their lives must change. They need to really make lifestyle changes from relationships to the hobbies they enjoy if they associate them with substance use. That is a lot to ask of someone who is trying to get clean. Imagine trying to stop using, change friends, and change your habits all at once. Addicts need a support system in place to keep them from falling right back into old habits. Anyways, my mind is about shot from a long day lol, was up at 4:15 this morning. I will try to follow up with more in the next few days. I'm really enjoying the thread so far by the way.

I did the suboxone thing. I would trade them with other addicts for dope and just use the suboxone for withdrawals or till pay day.

 

[nicapica]

another thing about this "

I've got a brother in a halfway house. Drugs (ultimately heroine), theft, and borrowing other peoples' checkbooks. Years of failed drug test while on probation. Years of robbing my mom blind. Somehow it's never amounted to any real time. Just local jails. Supposedly this is it though and next stop is prison. Since he hasn't gotten there by now it's hard to imagine why the next failed test would do it.

I don't talk to him. Not because of his drug use, but because he's a thief. And a liar. I don't expect him to ever truly feel sorry or make any attempt to atone. I sometimes wonder why it's gone this way. Best I've got is he had leukemia as a kid and comes from a broken home. How much is having high exposure to pain meds as a kid and how much is just feeling sorry for himself I couldn't say.

thats rough. I only got arrested twice couldnt handle seeing the pain on my moms face.

 

[nicapica]

another thing the dope fiends are incredibly comfortable here in Oakland. I've seen the same mofos chilling at one of the encampments by my job for over 3 years now. Downtown San Francisco is ground zero for looking at depressing shit I got off the civic center bart station and it looked like some dawn of the dead shit that part of San francisco should be on Dark Tourist or something.

 

[VivaRevolution]

How would you know the outcome of every use of a street drug? Since it is illegal or unregulated in most countries, there is no accurate account of the prevalence of adverse effects/deaths.

The 1 death out of 300 uses came from a study I saw listed on Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies’ (MAPS) page about ibogaine. This was based on the number of fatalities having occurred within the 3611 recorded treatments the authors examined. This, the increasing number of case reports of cardiac arrest, and halted phase 1 trial are the only real data points we have.

Because when people die, they have a cause of death, and a toxicology report done. That is how you would count deaths, not from just the 5000 clinical trials.

Now, I'm not going to call you a liar if you can't provide that study, but I can tell you it means nothing to this conversation if you can't provide it.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Now, I'm not going to call you a liar if you can't provide that study, but I can tell you it means nothing to this conversation if you can't provide it.

Let's keep it chill.

 

[Lubaolong]

Because when people die, they have a cause of death, and a toxicology report done. That is how you would count deaths, not from just the 5000 clinical trials.

Now, I'm not going to call you a liar if you can't provide that study, but I can tell you it means nothing to this conversation if you can't provide it.

You think they're doing autopsies on every person who dies? Also, there are currently no tests that I know of on the market for ibogaine, and even if there were, it certainly wouldn't be something routinely tested for.

 

[Lubaolong]

another thing the dope fiends are incredibly comfortable here in Oakland. I've seen the same mofos chilling at one of the encampments by my job for over 3 years now. Downtown San Francisco is ground zero for looking at depressing shit I got off the civic center bart station and it looked like some dawn of the dead shit that part of San francisco should be on Dark Tourist or something.

Resources are pretty scarce here, and state laws give mental health patients too many rights.

 

[nicapica]

Resources are pretty scarce here, and state laws give mental health patients too many rights.

I personally dont think thats the reason SF is the way it is. the city at this point has a reputation people come from across the country just to go pile out in the TL. I met a couple of these transient bums in rehab.

 

[Lubaolong]

I personally dont think thats the reason SF is the way it is. the city at this point has a reputation people come from across the country just to go pile out in the TL. I met a couple of these transient bums in rehab.

Yeah, it's not the only reason, but it certainly doesn't help anything. Imagine if you lived in a state where mentally ill homeless people were actually taken off the streets, hospitalized, given treatment whether they wanted it or not, and then provided with housing and employment resources. There are parts of the country like this, and they don't have the armies of homeless schizophrenics like you see all over California.

 

[Lubaolong]

I did the suboxone thing. I would trade them with other addicts for dope and just use the suboxone for withdrawals or till pay day.

I'm guessing the clinic you went to was pretty lax and didn't do random drug screens, strip counts, test buphrenorphine metabolite levels, etc. There are a lot of shitty doctors out there just wanting to make a buck.