Escaping a top lock from closed guard

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by ITRDC5, Sep 25, 2021.

  1. ITRDC5 Blue Belt

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    Hi all,

    When my opponent has the top lock ( danaher style ) legs crossed on my shoulders .

    What should I be doing to avoid getting put in either a triangle or arm bar?
    One of my training partners caught me with a slick setup the other day .

    I'm thinking that going inwards and to keep my hands in is probably the best bet ?

    I know prevention is better than the cure however !

    Cheers
     
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  2. Peteyandjia Winter Booth Staff Member Forum Administrator

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    Avoiding the triangle is easy, just do not pull your endangered arm out, under any circumstances, no matter what. That’s the cheese on the trap.

    The armbar is the real danger. Take your free hand, reach across & palm it inside their knee which is locked over your shoulder, pop up to both toes with your head tilted downward like a ram, & divebomb your way back into their guard fully.

    And then don’t let em get it again, because although it’s a cliche, the real answer as with so many shitty positions, is don’t be there.
     
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  3. GreatSaintGuillotine You may not like what I say but it's the truth.

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    The battle is all on not letting go them get your arm on their center line. Preemptively defending the top lock (or any attack) is paramount to success.

    If you get caught their you need to focus on reclaiming your trapped shoulder. Leave your arm in the trap so that they are only left with the armbar as a viable attack. Same rules for defending armbars from guard apply. Keep the target arm safe and use your free hand to help free your shoulder. Pressure down hard and turn your shoulder into the guard until it pops out.

    They'll be looking to attack the whole time. Its gonna be a fight but be patient. Rushing will just leave you open for other attacks.
     
  4. yetanother Black Belt

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    Its called the high guard. Danaher just saw Roger Gracie use it and put his own name on it.

    I would try to get my shoulder inside. But you better hope your armbar defenses are sharp.
     
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  5. Peteyandjia Winter Booth Staff Member Forum Administrator

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    Not the same. High guard is just having your knees up in them pits. So-called Toplock, or Shoulder guard as I’ve also heard it called, is when one of your legs actually goes over one of their shoulders, while they still technically have both arms inside your guard.
     
  6. rmongler Black Belt

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    Also known as dead orchard.

    The answer to all things closed guard of course, as always, is tozi.

     
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  7. Peteyandjia Winter Booth Staff Member Forum Administrator

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    To be fair though, that’s the answer to most things, just in general day to day life.

    Forgot the combination to your bicycle lock?

    Tozi.

    Someone cuts in front of you in line at Trader Joe’s?

    Tozi.

    Mom givin’ ya too much shit about cleaning your room?

    Tozi.
     
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  8. rmongler Black Belt

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. yetanother Black Belt

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    A dead orchard is a triangle with both arms in.
    Danaher is calling the old school position where you control the shoulder a top lock.
     
  10. Peteyandjia Winter Booth Staff Member Forum Administrator

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    Just watched that whole vid, porn for a pressure passer like myself. Thanks for posting it. Had heard of Priit, but not sure I’d ever actually seen him teach before
     
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  11. rmongler Black Belt

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    I know some guys used to call it a 'teepee' back in the day too, which they liked for setting up triangles. High guard is the most common term i've seen used though. Which is somewhat generic, so maybe that's why Danimals uses his own term to disambiguate.
     
  12. EndlessCritic Steel Belt

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    And yet Karel Pravec calls it perpendicular guard...

    Anyways I wish I had an answer to this thread. One brown belt I trained with was extremely adept at hitting this position, and he usually was able to finish me.
     
  13. rmongler Black Belt

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    He can't shoot his hips up to trap your shoulder if you are already pressuring into him in the first place.

    It's not a coincidence how Roger himself favors circle stack passing. Braulio, another big time closed guard player, the same thing.
     
  14. dimmyfinster Blue Belt

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    Braulio also is big with this technique. Braulio calls it high guard. It's another case of Danaher coming up with his own names for positions.

    Braulios escape is to get the shoulder out. You can't get the shoulder out if bottom player is pulling your head down and towards the knee over the shoulder. But that's the escape.
     
  15. yetanother Black Belt

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    A former friend used to counter my high guard by throwing his legs over like you would to open a triangle.
     
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  16. ITRDC5 Blue Belt

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    So I am aware of the Tozi and have tried it previously, the bit I always struggle with is getting the legs separated at the end.

    How is he doing that in that video-? i find that I can get people all twisted but cant get the legs separated- especially against insanely flexible guard players.

    I'm pretty lightweigh- 65kgt and tried this against a BB in a recent competition , I definitely was applying pressure but couldnt get the legs opened. He had a really good closed guard and I couldn't get posture so I tried the Tozi.
     
  17. EndlessCritic Steel Belt

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    I think the idea is that they're so uncomfortable and contorted that their legs flop open. I suppose if someone is sufficiently flexible they can hang on.
     
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  18. yetanother Black Belt

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    Looking at the high level fights most often the bottom guy will but you in a sub like an omoplata or triangle and once you escape the sub you compete the Tozi pass and get out of the closed guard.
     
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  19. ITRDC5 Blue Belt

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    I found a better video on the tozi- is this kinda the same pass as Roger used? From what I have seen before it does work better against people your own size/smaller or who arnt these flexible worm creatures- unfortunately it seems to be the guys that I take on in competition who have no spine.





    I did also find a pretty good lachlan giles escape on the "high guard" that someone mentioned- so its kinda like an armbar stack to get your shoulder back in.

     
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  20. shunyata Silver Belt

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    I'm all about this, brown belt in "dirty jiu jitsu" and keep explaining to people that they should open their guard if they don't like being stacked in full guard.
     

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