Eric Talmant on 'speed' in powerlifting

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by JPC, May 25, 2008.

  1. JPC

    JPC Purple Belt

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    Interesting this-contradictory to what Westside preaches.

    Somewhat long but interesting-

    Dave just completed a somewhat extensive test on himself in which he was using the Tendo unit as a "governor" on his training. Instead of doing the prescribed programs (for example, 80% x 3 repetitions x 6 approaches or sets) he tweaked it so that he would terminate a set when he was no longer outputting the same power/speed (which turned out to be 80% for doubles in most cases). So, instead of doing 18 reps at this percentage range in 6 sets, he was doing it in 9 sets with a stringent focus on form, technique, etc. The result was that without the *straining* of that 3rd rep that he was unable to build strength in basically any of the three disciplines. Therefore, for Dave (and I believe this to be vital for rated lifters but not novices) although form and technique are extremely important, there needs to be some kind of straining involved (in most cases that "extra" rep) to build strength; and that is why Sheiko programs his approaches (sets) and reps the way that he does. Sometimes you need sets of 2, sometimes 3, sometimes 4, and sometimes 5 because they all have a purpose. This can be researched further by reading Zatsiorsky and his findings on the maximal effort approach (in our example above it would be the 80% for many sets of 3), the sub maximal effort/repeated effort (*somewhat* exemplified when Dave did 80% for more sets of 2 instead of 3), and then the dynamic effort method (which is much more applicable to Olympic weightlifting than powerlifting).

    Now, back to your question; Dave is already an explosive lifter (as I mentioned in the podcast) but being explosive is not that high a priority when it comes to the powerlifts. Therefore, he needs to teach his body how to strain and there is no better way than to train with programming like Sheiko which has you straining and straining day in and day out while still walking that fine line that does not cross over into "overtraining". This is best accomplished when one properly programs their training to reflect the higher end of Prilepin's chart-not all of the time but at the *right* times.

    As I have stated before, when Dave and our group trained using the dynamic method we were able to get faster with lighter weights but that increased speed did not translate into us being able to "break through" and "outrun" our old barriers in a particular discipline or lift simply because it was not enough to overcome the load that was placed upon us. That is why being able to activate the CNS and strain through a sticking point is so absolutely crucial when training the powerlifts. Therefore, although Dave is explosive he clearly needs to train his CNS and his ability to just strain-which is best accomplished by the type of training that we do or similar. Since this type of straining is extremely sports specific, we strain squatting to improve our squat; not some other exercise that may or may not build the squat. Just because you learn how to strain on a particular exercise does not necessarily mean that will transfer to another specific exercise.
     
  2. Merrill

    Merrill Purple Belt

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    Is there any more to this article?

    Who is "Dave?" Dave Tate?

    What I am understanding from this is that every session should involve "straining," so basically you train with a higher percentage of your 1RM for every session rather than use the Westside DE day. In other words, multiple sessions working up to 80% of your 1RM is more effective than using the Westside conjugate method.

    Westside DE squat method: 12X2 with 50-60% Vs. (example)6X3 with 80%

    I thought that Lou Simmons came up with his ME protocol (i.e. working up and over 90%), in part, by Zatsiorsky's research and Prilepin's chart.


    Nice find. What is the source?
     
  3. JPC

    JPC Purple Belt

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    I simply copied and pasted it from a post on another training forum. I don't know the source. I'll try and find out and post it back here.
     
  4. Donut62

    Donut62 Black Belt

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    Eric wrote this on the EliteFTS Q&A. He is basically reiterating the Sheiko powerlifting philosiphy. Basically, they aren't saying that speed work doesn't help your training, but saying that it doesn't work for the reason of "making you faster". It's works because because its submaximal lifting, and there are better loading protocals to use when performing SE work (75%-85%, 2-3 reps).
     
  5. Donut62

    Donut62 Black Belt

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    David Bates, Eric's coach.

    That's exactly correct, and how Sheiko programs work.




    He did. There are hundreds of methods, and hundreds of people have gotten strong using them all. At the end of the day I really believe just consistently squatting/pushing/pulling heavy shit and picking some method to your madness is all that really matters.
     
  6. Klotz

    Klotz Shalom

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    That makes me feel better about being so slow.
     
  7. arctic82

    arctic82 Orange Belt

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    Wasnt it just up on another thread that the old time strongman Dough Hepburn (?) adviced lifters to do 8x3 with your true eight rep max, that translates, depending on ones training history, in around 80%.
     
  8. Donut62

    Donut62 Black Belt

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    You would have to be pretty damn untrained to hit an 8rm and it be 80%. It would be more like 70% for most people, with 80 to 85% being a 5rm.
     
  9. arctic82

    arctic82 Orange Belt

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    well. like I said it depends on your backround and what you have train'd. Someone that has been training with lower reps for a long time probably has siftet towards the prosentage that you described, but for some that have train'd more for hypertrophy and strength endurance I think it'd fairly accurate. Either way its not a bad place to start for training such as mentiond in the opening post.
     
  10. ThinkGreen

    ThinkGreen Der √úbermensch

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    I usually do about 70-80% of my 1rm for "de" sets and stick to 8sets of 2 or 3 reps... guess I'm just smart.
     
  11. fennway4414

    fennway4414 Brown Belt

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    That was a good read. I started doing a DE type approach to my bench for a few weeks and busted through my bench press plateau. But, now I've been using heavier weights and realizing my body can handle much greater loads and volume than I thought I could and it seems to be working alright again. This is definitely a gray area in my eyes since both seem to work for me.
     

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