Energy Systems Training + Conditioning advice

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Jay Ess

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I have a few questions for the more knowledgeable heads on the forum.

Basically, I have been following a fitness programme recently; it is working fine however I am wondering whether it is the most efficient and whether it is making the most progress possible per week.

Day 1 - 10x 200m hill sprints/ complete recovery in between

Day 2 - 2x 5 minute stair runs/ 5 min recovery

Day 3 - Strength training (isometric, eccentric)

Day 4 - 5x 200m hill sprints, 5x 60m hill sprints/ complete recovery in between

Day 5 - Tabata drills - 20/10 for 5 minutes x 2/ 5 minute recovery

Day 6 - Endurance circuit (high reps/low or no resistance)

Day 7 - REST


The gains I would like to make more than anything else would be (in order of priority):

1. Increase in aerobic base/recovery time
2. Increase in anaerobic threshold/lactate tolerance
3. Increase in anaerobic explosive movement
4. Punching endurance/volume


If you were looking at this programme with those objectives in mind, what would you look to change?
 
I'd look to change pretty much everything. It looks like you're working very hard, but without much of a plan. Are you a boxer? You mention punching, but nothing else. How often do you train boxing? What does your training look like in that regard. Knowing what you're actually training for helps.
 
Tosa said:
I'd look to change pretty much everything. It looks like you're working very hard, but without much of a plan. Are you a boxer? You mention punching, but nothing else. How often do you train boxing? What does your training look like in that regard. Knowing what you're actually training for helps.
Click to expand...

In all honesty answering these questions will likely turn this thread into a shit throwing show.
 
Yes I've competed as an amateur boxer for many years now, looking to turn over into the pro ranks within the next few years.

Should have probably mentioned that in the OP lol sorry guys

But yeah my aims are related to boxing, so we are talking training for output in 3/4x 3 min rounds

Boxing training per week is around 3/4 sessions a week consisting of a mix of sparring, bags, pads, skip etc

So my fitness programme runs around those sessions as well
 
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Well, for starters, you'd want to actually do aerobic base work. That is steady state work, below the lactate threshold, so a typical intensity would be between 120 and 140 BPM. Probably 3-4x a week, working up to 50-60 minutes for a longer session. Ideally, some of the aerobic base work would be total body (Eg. swimming or rowing).

After doing that for a while, you'd start including some AT/lactate threshold intervals. Some VO2max intervals would be good too.

Explosive work is best trained in the gym, along with strength work, not as part of conditioning.
 
Your training doesn't really address any particular goal. Its a lot of stuff, but without vision.
In order to Increase an aerobic base/recovery time, work on this. Tosa gave some insight. FAQ has more. If you want to Increase anaerobic threshold/lactate tolerance, again work in that range. FAQ has lots of examples. For an Increase in anaerobic explosive movement (not entirely sure what you mean here). If its explosions you want, listen to Tosa, this is not conditioning, this is technical and requires its own attention. FAQ has some examples. For Punching endurance/volume, punch more.
 
Tosa said:
Well, for starters, you'd want to actually do aerobic base work. That is steady state work, below the lactate threshold, so a typical intensity would be between 120 and 140 BPM. Probably 3-4x a week, working up to 50-60 minutes for a longer session. Ideally, some of the aerobic base work would be total body (Eg. swimming or rowing).

After doing that for a while, you'd start including some AT/lactate threshold intervals. Some VO2max intervals would be good too.

Explosive work is best trained in the gym, along with strength work, not as part of conditioning.
Click to expand...

Some sound advice here, thank you. I really do want to utilise swimming as much as i can for an alternative to running. To be honest I do have a relatively decent aerobic capacity at the moment, I only really find the activity taxing when the intensity or pace increases rather than the duration. And this is where my recovery suffers also.

What would your opinion be on the AT work I am currently doing on the hills?
 
NurseKnuckles said:
Your training doesn't really address any particular goal. Its a lot of stuff, but without vision.
In order to Increase an aerobic base/recovery time, work on this. Tosa gave some insight. FAQ has more. If you want to Increase anaerobic threshold/lactate tolerance, again work in that range. FAQ has lots of examples. For an Increase in anaerobic explosive movement (not entirely sure what you mean here). If its explosions you want, listen to Tosa, this is not conditioning, this is technical and requires its own attention. FAQ has some examples. For Punching endurance/volume, punch more.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice man, I've just had a brief read through that FAQ; really does have a lot of the information and explanations which I'm looking for in there.

Trying to take as much information in from different resources as I can tbh
 
Jay Ess said:
Thanks for the advice man, I've just had a brief read through that FAQ; really does have a lot of the information and explanations which I'm looking for in there.

Trying to take as much information in from different resources as I can tbh
Click to expand...

No worries. Its a great tool. Most people ignore it.

Do you currently lifweights?

I'd really break your training into the parts you need.

Gas Tank: Running, swimming, sprints, sparring, fun sledge hammer stuff, crossfit is here.
Strength: Lift weights. Pick a program and stick to it. there are plenty of options even if its 2 days a week. For a fighter, something full-body with a squat (variations included), push and pull preferrably all on the same day.

Day 1
power snatch
press
front squat

Day 2
power clean
bench
squat

Something simple like this can work.

Technique: Iverson can help here
we-talkin-bout-practice-o.gif
 
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Jay Ess said:
Some sound advice here, thank you. I really do want to utilise swimming as much as i can for an alternative to running. To be honest I do have a relatively decent aerobic capacity at the moment, I only really find the activity taxing when the intensity or pace increases rather than the duration. And this is where my recovery suffers also.
Click to expand...

Aerobic base work will never feel that hard, because you're staying within a HR range that won't ever feel that hard. But it's effects are hugely beneficial to other training. What is your resting HR, and what is your HR recovery like? If they're not excellent, you could still benefit a lot from aerobic base work. And even if they are excellent, it serves as active recovery from more intense conditioning work.

Jay Ess said:
What would your opinion be on the AT work I am currently doing on the hills?
Click to expand...

With AT intervals you'd be looking to be running at around anaerobic threshold, for between 30s-4 minutes, often with something like a 1:1 work/rest ratio. If a hill sprint is, in fact, a sprint, it'd be way above that intensity, and require much more rest. To give you an idea, a person could be expected to exercise at around AT for about half an hour.
 
NurseKnuckles said:
No worries. Its a great tool. Most people ignore it.

Do you currently lifweights?

I'd really break your training into the parts you need.

Gas Tank: Running, swimming, sprints, sparring, fun sledge hammer stuff, crossfit is here.
Strength: Lift weights. Pick a program and stick to it. there are plenty of options even if its 2 days a week. For a fighter, something full-body with a squat (variations included), push and pull preferrably all on the same day.

Day 1
power snatch
press
front squat

Day 2
power clean
bench
squat

Something simple like this can work.

Technique: Iverson can help here
we-talkin-bout-practice-o.gif
Click to expand...

To be honest with you the only weights I really do are within circuits. My strength work mainly consists of muscle ups, dips, box jumps etc

But yes the gas tank aspect is something that needs major work in order for me to succeed at the higher level

Tosa said:
Aerobic base work will never feel that hard, because you're staying within a HR range that won't ever feel that hard. But it's effects are hugely beneficial to other training. What is your resting HR, and what is your HR recovery like? If they're not excellent, you could still benefit a lot from aerobic base work. And even if they are excellent, it serves as active recovery from more intense conditioning work.



With AT intervals you'd be looking to be running at around anaerobic threshold, for between 30s-4 minutes, often with something like a 1:1 work/rest ratio. If a hill sprint is, in fact, a sprint, it'd be way above that intensity, and require much more rest. To give you an idea, a person could be expected to exercise at around AT for about half an hour.
Click to expand...

RHR is around 56 at the moment. HR recovery is no where at the standard I'd like it to be really.

I think it might be worthwhile seeing if i can pick up a HR monitor since most of the work I'll be looking to do will centre around getting this kind of feedback
 
Jay Ess said:
To be honest with you the only weights I really do are within circuits. My strength work mainly consists of muscle ups, dips, box jumps etc
Click to expand...

Then that means it's an area you'll be able to see a lot of improvement in with only a moderate amount of work. That said, maximal strength isn't a big priority for a boxer, but some basic, well rounded, strength work will provide a base to be more successful with explosive work, as well as prevent injury.

Jay Ess said:
I think it might be worthwhile seeing if i can pick up a HR monitor since most of the work I'll be looking to do will centre around getting this kind of feedback
Click to expand...

For most conditioning work, a heart rate monitor is a fantastic tool. While you can pay a lot for them, there are less expensive models, you'd just want to do some research and read some product reviews before buying one. I've been using one I bought for ~$50 for years and I'm happy with it.
 
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1. Increase in aerobic base/recovery time
2. Increase in anaerobic threshold/lactate tolerance
3. Increase in anaerobic explosive movement
4. Punching endurance/volume


I don't have any experience with training for boxing, just happened to be reading through the forums. Just my thoughts would be wouldn't you want to prioritize anaerobic explosive movement. Being able to react quicker and get off faster I would think would be hugely beneficial. Especially if you already have a solid aerobic base.
 
Tosa, are they any books or general resources you'd recommend for learning about this stuff? I understand energy systems well enough but it's the specific training of different thresholds I'd like to know more about.
 
InertiaTraining said:
Tosa, are they any books or general resources you'd recommend for learning about this stuff? I understand energy systems well enough but it's the specific training of different thresholds I'd like to know more about.
Click to expand...

I'm not Tosa, but Joel Jamieson's book (Ultimate MMA Conditioning) has lots of suggestions both for exercises and protocols (intensity, duration, sets, reps) for targeting different energy systems. He also gives guidelines for putting together a periodized plan. Although it's for a fighter, so the periodization might be different for other sports.
 
JauntyAngle said:
I'm not Tosa, but Joel Jamieson's book (Ultimate MMA Conditioning) has lots of suggestions both for exercises and protocols (intensity, duration, sets, reps) for targeting different energy systems. He also gives guidelines for putting together a periodized plan. Although it's for a fighter, so the periodization might be different for other sports.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jaunty, I'll have a look into that.
 
JauntyAngle said:
I'm not Tosa, but Joel Jamieson's book (Ultimate MMA Conditioning) has lots of suggestions both for exercises and protocols (intensity, duration, sets, reps) for targeting different energy systems. He also gives guidelines for putting together a periodized plan. Although it's for a fighter, so the periodization might be different for other sports.
Click to expand...

I'd recommend the same thing.
 
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