Elephant in the room: next LW champ is a paper champ

Bruh you can't list 3 different fighters as the "one" to beat <{hughesimpress}>
 
Khabib ran from Oliveira, also ducked several other guys. The winner is the legit champ and Khabib wants nothing to do with somebody that can grapple. It's why he never fought anybody known for elite grappling or a good bjj game off of their back. He was scheduled against 2 guys that were known for being decent off of their backs and pulled out multiple times against both of them.
 
Technically.

but khabib quit, you can't hold it against the next champ forever.

If the next champ defends against the next no1 contender, then he is legit.

life goes on
 
There's actually not much people that would be a more legit champ right now than Oliveira.
 
Ban all post-2015 accounts from making threads, these kids have shit for brains
 
Rankings mean that Poirier is #1 until someone beats him. So, he stays as such, while winner of Chandler/Olives moves to #2. Khabib retired as the lineal champ. That always takes some time to resolve.
 
In my opinion I don’t consider someone there real champ if they didn’t beat the person in the top spot. The champ. If the champ is vacated than the top ranked. Or if they are there #1 they need to beat the #2.
So I won’t consider Chandler or Olivera champ until they beat Poirier, or if Poirier loses, whoever is top ranked after that.

Jan I beat the top ranked Reyes at the time so earned the title.
Yan beat the #6 Aldo. He clearly hadn’t proved he was the best. If he beat stirling I would consider him the champ.
 
eiyuu said:
Does that mean that when GSP vacated the WW title, every titleholder since then has been a paper champ?
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No Skill Gap said:
Cool then the WW champ is a paper champ now and forever because - GSP
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Didn't GSP actually lose to Hendricks? Or at least was a very close fight that could go either way?



When Hendricks won the Lawler fight, there shouldn't be any doubt who was the WW champ at the time.

No Skill Gap said:
And Jan-Reyes, which obviously became Jan, is a paper champ because - Jon Jones
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I thought Reyes won against Jones, so I don't think the same logic applies here.

No Skill Gap said:
and the FW champ could be construed as such considering McGregor blasted the division then left never to return...
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Well I think this is the closest example I can think of similar to this situation, however, Conor still didn't give a rematch to Aldo or never defended his featherweight belt, not even once.
No Skill Gap said:
But I think most people move on
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Yeah, even if Khabib in theory can come out of retirement and beat the current Lightweights, he said he is retired, unless he says he decided come back, he shouldn't be considered as an active fighter right now.
 
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Tevfik1907 said:
Didn't GSP actually lose to Hendricks? Or at least was a very close fight that could go either way?



When Hendricks won the Lawler fight, there shouldn't be any doubt who was the WW champ at the time.


I thought Reyes won against Jones, so I don't think the same logic applies here.


Well I think this is the closest example I can think of similar to this situation, however, Conor still didn't give a rematch to Aldo or never defended his featherweight belt, not even once.

Yeah, even if Khabib in theory can come out of retirement and beat the current Lightweights, he said he is retired, unless he says he decided come back, he shouldn't be considered as an active fighter right now.
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Khabib lost to Tibau and only defended the belt 3 times and won it off Al Iaquinta a journeyman. So there's criticisms for him as well. Not like he defended for a decade like Jones/GSP. The bout was scored for GSP and he won on the 10 point must system, he was still champ. I did think Reyes won based on rounds but again, Jones won the fight and retained his belt.

Khabib's dominance lasted a fraction of the time that Jones or GSP's did.

Agree with the last part obviously, and that is a factor...but it was for GSP as well who came back and won the MW title against a weaker MW champ
 
At least Chandler and Oliveira haven't lost to Khabib.
 
Through The Looking Glass said:
by this logic

Jan is a paper champ.

Yan is a paper champ too.
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Yan's not even a champ on paper.

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No Skill Gap said:
Khabib lost to Tibau and only defended the belt 3 times and won it off Al Iaquinta a journeyman. So there's criticisms for him as well. Not like he defended for a decade like Jones/GSP. The bout was scored for GSP and he won on the 10 point must system, he was still champ. I did think Reyes won based on rounds but again, Jones won the fight and retained his belt.

Khabib's dominance lasted a fraction of the time that Jones or GSP's did.

Agree with the last part obviously, and that is a factor...but it was for GSP as well who came back and won the MW title against a weaker MW champ
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Except Khabib didn't lose to Tibau (yup, I watch that fight twice to be sure about it, Khabib didn't even get hurt or bled while Tibau bled), and that was Khabib's only second UFC fight, he got better after that fight. He was already considered as P4P no.1 in UFC before even winning the belt (Holloway said this in Rogan show), and he dominated Al Iaquinta in that fight, didn't even lose a round to Al Iaquinta in a 5 round fight. Al Iaquinta was a bad match-up for Khabib as well, due to him having a good TDD and being able to handle wrestler based fighters, as we've seen how Al Iaquinta handled a good wrestler based fighter like Kevin Lee, and defeated Kevin Lee twice when they fought. Khabib completely dominated even an opponent that's a bad match-up for him. Later after beating Kevin Lee, Al Iaquinta's ranking was no.4 in 2019.

That's not criticism, GSP and Jones highly possible that they lost their last fights in their own divisions, while Khabib never did, he finished his opponents. So this is not comparable. And what I said wasn't a criticism if GSP was good or not, if GSP lost to Hendricks then beat Hendricks after winning the rematch then that would be accurate comparison, but GSP arguably lost to Hendricks then he never fought Hendricks again, same with Reyes vs Jones, Jones arguably lost to Reyes, and he didn't fight with Reyes again, vacated his belt, that's why GSP or Jones examples doesn't work with Khabib, who finished his last 3 opponents with ease.

Anyway, if you understand the difference here, then we agreed with the last part since I also agree Khabib shouldn't be considered as an active fighter now since he is officially retired, whoever wins Oliveira vs Chandler, is the new UFC Lightweight champ, as simple as that.
 
Well it's hard since khabib was so dominant but fuck it..

The JBG blessed us by letting go of khabib.. just enjoy the show..
 
DebtCollectorMMA said:
First of all, great fight, great matchup, and looking forward to it. But let's be honest, the winner will be considered a paper champ until they defend against Gaethje or Poirier (or Conor if he leaves Poirier stiff in impressive, devastating fashion).

Not to mention the LW division is the laughing stock of the UFC since Khabib vacated and left the division dead in the water. Nobody will take that belt seriously with Khabib retiring on top at the young age of 32. It's the second best belt. The DWP belt. Tony bless.
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I disagree.
If Do Bronx wins, he will be a legit champion.
He beat Tony, who was the top guy in the division for very long.
Not anyone's fault Khabib left.

If chandler wins though... while I I can see a reason to claim he is "untested", he was a champion in Bellator and beat (if he wins) two top ranked fighters to get this belt.

Either way, both guys are legit top ranked fighters that have proven their worth before this fight.
 
Shaitan said:
You mean this can?



The guy that got destroyed in his own guard? This is the guy that's supposed to outgrapple Khabib? Lol.
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Khabib ducks grapplers like the plague. He couldn't take down Tibau and he retired to avoid Oliveira.
 
Khabib is retired and a non-factor in 2021.

We don't have a clear best at the moment. No, Dustin and Justin are not *clearly and overwhelmingly* better than Chandler and Oliveira.

That's why they should...you know...fight for the belt.

And like it or not, Conor is still a wild card (whether or not he should be, he is).

Historically, lineal championships haven't ended after a belt holder retires. There is usually a period of time before it's established that the former champion is "really" retired...and then a new segment of the lineal belt starts.
 
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