Elbows on the ground in the UFC. The new norm?

the knee to the head was also used in pride by wrestlers, and i would figure most wrestlers dont move position because it has no use for them with the current rule set, if they cant use some of their grounded weapons it would be easy to just stay in the safe position of half /full guard and use punches and elbows (not risking letting their opponent get out of their control). right now to be in side control and attack the head you must hold with one arm them strike with he other making it easier for the grounded fighter get get away or get up, but with the knees they would be able to have a more secure grip of the fighter (using two arms) and then striking with the knee.

are you implying that throwing strikes from guard or half guard is perceived as more effective than strikes from side control or full mount? get the hell out of here. guys don't look to pass more often because they don't want to risk losing position, and they know they don't have to since the opponent on their back can't do much anyway as long as they don't create any openings, and the judges will give them the round as long as the stay on top (even if they spend most of the round defending subs).
 
This. The guard is a massively unbalanced position as it stands. No wonder people say the guard is dead in MMA.

A guy like Jones can posture up on one knee and is free to rain down elbows of death without risk of being kicked and basically the only option for the guy on his back is to cover up or attempt to kick the hips and hip escape away, but this often leads to being passed. No kicks to the face or heels to the kidneys (ala Royce Gracie) leave this position completely neutered. Both hunkered down they can chip away with short elbows, stay 'busy' and grind, and postured up there is basically no counter - whilst knowing that every second they are down there 'on top' they are seen as 'winning' regardless of what actually happens in terms of damage or threat of being subbed. Its no wonder the guy on top (wrestlers) have it so good, the conditions are perfect for them to thrive. Certainly balance needs to be restored by allowing kicks to the face if BOTH fighters are on the ground.

This is a great post.
 
They are best for close quarters.

The striking surface is obviousy much harder

You can't gnerate as much foce as you can with a punch.

Bottom line, there is a tool for every job
 
one of the reason i like JJ so much, he almost has elbows down to a science.

Yeah, he's able to utilize his reach to get a ton of leverage on those elbows. Pretty brutal stuff.
 
are you implying that throwing strikes from guard or half guard is perceived as more effective than strikes from side control or full mount? get the hell out of here. guys don't look to pass more often because they don't want to risk losing position, and they know they don't have to since the opponent on their back can't do much anyway as long as they don't create any openings, and the judges will give them the round as long as the stay on top (even if they spend most of the round defending subs).

when did i say strikes were less effective? i was talking about control and the position, and weighing the benefits of each position and if you look at the wrestlers they see to prefer the half guard position (like i said they want to keep the control since when you strike from side control you have less control and more holes) no where in my post did i say guard strikes are more effective.

p.s. if my post was confusing i can change it up to be more understandable.
 
the knee to the head was also used in pride by wrestlers

Yeah wrestlers who could pass guard, or found themselves in dominant positions. And yes I've agreed that it would help them in this position.


and i would figure most wrestlers dont move position because it has no use for them with the current rule set, if they cant use some of their grounded weapons it would be easy to just stay in the safe position of half /full guard and use punches and elbows (not risking letting their opponent get out of their control).
Perhaps, but you obviously agree with my assertion that it hinders wrestlers the least as the rules currently stand as there is less of a reward for passing as it stands.

right now to be in side control and attack the head you must hold with one arm them strike with he other making it easier for the grounded fighter get get away or get up, but with the knees they would be able to have a more secure grip of the fighter (using two arms) and then striking with the knee.

Yes. I think we are coming to similar conclusions...

1 - It would help well rounded wrestlers who are capable of passing guard and like to get to dominant positions (good)

2 - It would help strikers/BJJ guys who choose to defend takedowns with the additional help of being able to knee the head in the sprawl position or put some doubt in the fighter trying to take them down. BJJ guys on top would love it as using knees from a strong position can open up subs. (good)

3 - it would hurt 1-Dimensional wrestlers currently content to sit in guard to run the clock or unable to pass guard, as they risk being kneed in the head every time they try to take a fighter to the ground. (good)

Basically its a good thing to have them legal!
 
when did i say strikes were less effective? i was talking about control and the position, and weighing the benefits of each position and if you look at the wrestlers they see to prefer the half guard position (like i said they want to keep the control since when you strike from side control you have less control and more holes) no where in my post did i say guard strikes are more effective.

p.s. if my post was confusing i can change it up to be more understandable.

you're saying that guys who prefer to stay in guard, or half guard, do so because they think it's better than trying to get to side control or mount, since according to you there isn't really much added benefit to getting those positions since you can't knee guys in the head. i'm saying you're wrong. guys with awesome gnp can do some very good damage from positions beyond half and full guard. these guys that you see not trying to advance more don't stay in guard because there's no benefit to advancing, they do it because it's less risky (except for randy couture of course :p)
 
Yeah wrestlers who could pass guard, or found themselves in dominant positions. And yes I've agreed that it would help them in this position.



Perhaps, but you obviously agree with my assertion that it hinders wrestlers the least as the rules currently stand as there is less of a reward for passing as it stands.



Yes. I think we are coming to similar conclusions...

1 - It would help well rounded wrestlers who are capable of passing guard and like to get to dominant positions (good)

2 - It would help strikers/BJJ guys who choose to defend takedowns with the additional help of being able to knee the head in the sprawl position or put some doubt in the fighter trying to take them down. BJJ guys on top would love it as using knees from a strong position can open up subs. (good)

3 - it would hurt 1-Dimensional wrestlers currently content to sit in guard to run the clock or unable to pass guard, as they risk being kneed in the head every time they try to take a fighter to the ground. (good)

Basically its a good thing to have them legal!

i have always been for grounded knees, i just believe it wont solve people wrestler problems.
 
you're saying that guys who prefer to stay in guard, or half guard, do so because they think it's better than trying to get to side control or mount, since according to you there isn't really much added benefit to getting those positions since you can't knee guys in the head. i'm saying you're wrong. guys with awesome gnp can do some very good damage from positions beyond half and full guard. these guys that you see not trying to advance more don't stay in guard because there's no benefit to advancing, they do it because it's less risky (except for randy couture of course :p)

the less risk is the benefit im talking about, just as with a jab or hook, who doesnt want to land a power hook on someone? but you give up range and open up to a counter so the jab is safer and longer which is it benefit.
 
goodridgeelbows-1.gif

I've seen this 1000 times, including when it happened. And it still blows my mind every time.
 
i have always been for grounded knees, i just believe it wont solve people wrestler problems.

There isn't a problem with wrestlers, there's a problem with fairness and balance in the dynamics of the MMA game (which are particularly affect certain positions). I think that tweaking some rules would help that, and I've been a big advocate of that for a long time - see my sig!
 
There isn't a problem with wrestlers, there's a problem with fairness and balance in the dynamics of the MMA game (which are particularly affect certain positions). I think that tweaking some rules would help that, and I've been a big advocate of that for a long time - see my sig!

cant say i disagree, there needs to be changes.
 
I've seen this 1000 times, including when it happened. And it still blows my mind every time.

Instant classic. In the original UFC videogame (dreamcast), I was messing around with all the fighters in the training mode one time and you could select starting position, and from a certain one they had this move !!!! The shit thing was, I don't think Goodridge had the ability in game to transition to crucifix, so it was just in there as an easter egg. Was sick, but wished I could have pulled it out on bro and friends. Would have seen it a 1000 more.
 
This man was an elbowing machine before it was cool:

loiseau_david_487_381.jpg
 
I remember Rembo Parduel Elbo KOing Orlando Weit in UFC2 I think. And Pat Smith Destroyed a Ninja using that elbow. GnP was already there since Day1 the only reason why Mark Coleman got credit for it because he is the first champion who employed it. But I will give that credit to Don Frye instead.
 
yes rules which stand up opponents when they are still doing work and the guy on bottom is clearly stalling favor wrestlers.

It's funny how people think that knees on the ground and things of that nature would benefit strikers. If anything it would help the wrestlers.

Think of how much more hate wrestlers will get if they get to do this . . .

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I'm pretty sure most athletic commissions would not allow kicks/knees to grounded fighters. A lot of U.S. states qualify it as assault with a deadly weapon. People complain about the injury layoffs now, what do you think would happen if they allowed soccer kicks, knees to the face on the ground, and 12-6 elbows from the mount? You'd have guys getting their faces destroyed and serious surgery being needed constantly. The rules are in place to protect fighters from serious or permanent injury. Sometimes they fail. There is no reason to loosen them and create even more problems.
 
Elbows give you a better chance at cutting your opponent and virtually give him no shot to submit you. Elbows<punches when in dominant position.

If you are throwing elbows from someone's guard, wouldn't that give them more of your arm than if you were throwing a punch? I would think it would be harder to slip your arm out if you threw an elbow.
 
Think of how much more hate wrestlers will get if they get to do this . . .

colemanknees.gif

people hate wrestlers because they are boring as fuck. give them the ability to finish a fight with their wrestling skills, like knees on the ground and suddenly they are some of the most exciting fighters to watch.

it solves a lot of problems. there will still be boring fighters, but no doubt less dry humping on the ground.
 
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