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Effectiveness of BJJ in Judo?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Falsedawn, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. Falsedawn

    Falsedawn Mansa Platinum Member

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    So I recently started attending Judo practice and I absolutely love it. I've honestly had a hard time sticking with things, but I think Judo is finally the one that I can fully dive into. I did have a huge question though. For experienced practitioners of the sport, what is your opinion on the effectiveness of BJJ training when doing groundwork in Judo? It's nothing too serious, but I have a friend who is going to start helping me round off my ground game (He's a Blue Belt in BJJ). What are some of the things in BJJ that I should stay away from if I want to excel in Judo? Do the arts cross over enough to complement each other, or would I be having to remember two totally different methodologies of thinking regarding the ground game?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  2. DSGhST07

    DSGhST07 Blue Belt

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    BJJ is very effective for judo. There are some differences, such as flopping to the guard is frowned upon, but it is allowed. Judo guys tend to turtle up a lot instead of escaping to the guard. There is also the pinning factor, once a judoka pins you down, he most likely will stay there and not move, you probably won't either lol. BJJ guys constantly look for the submission which is one of the best things you can pick up from it. Your friend should def be able to help you out with most things, sweeps, subs, and escapes especially.
     
  3. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    Honestly I have had a hard time to really use my limited BJJ(a year) in judo (6 years very on and of due to injuries), the stuff I have done succesfully I already did before I did BJJ aka pinning and subs from pinning. i haven't been able to capitalize on people turtling after I throw them because refs just don't give much time,they only need to defend for a short time even if you get hooks in and whatnot. but I am not that good of a bjjer (nor judoka for that matter)

    BJJ and judo is kinda the opposite in approach, slow and methodical vs fast and explosive.

    I have been able to use my judo in BJJ much more, training when "rolling" in judo I can pretty much chillax and just flow but there are hardly never ground battles in judo comp
     
  4. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    BJJ is a huge help. I won a lot of Judo matches by submission or pinning, most of those skills were from BJJ.
     
  5. pailum117

    pailum117 Blue Belt

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    Judo= Much stronger throws and takedowns, some might argue a better top game. I would not argue that.

    BJJ= Much better all around ground work, and if you train at alot of U.S. gyms where wrestling is highly incorporated you're probably going to be just fine in the takedown department aswell.
     
  6. Carrera26

    Carrera26 Orange Belt

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    Depends on what your mental goals are. Are you training specifically to win Judo competitions? If so the BJJ experience will be valuable if you find yourself in a Ne Waza situation, but not as much as mnay think (due to time before standup and a Judoka's ability to stall out). If you simply like Grappling and enjoy being more effective on the ground and learning, then abso-friggin-lutely. I like competition, and am looking forward to the next Shiai I can go to, but I like learning outside the specific competition rules a lot more. I'm not going to let the IJF tell me what I can and can't do in my own practice...

    If you are more focussed on, or have a Shiai coming up, I would just make sure that you practice with your friend under Judo Shiai rules and from common situations (like intentionally fail a throw and work from there) is order to see how you would need to focus your practice for the best result.
     
  7. CajunJudoka

    CajunJudoka Judo Brown BJJ Brown

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    One thing you need to be aware is the grips you take in newaza. In Judo you can not grip the end of the sleeves like you can in JJ. (open gaurd, spider gaurd) No crossfacing or touching the face at all. You can slide your hand under the chin line to get chokes but not over the chin. You can not pull on the head when applying a triangle. Other than that JJ will help. Mat time is mat time!
     
  8. Carrera26

    Carrera26 Orange Belt

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    ^^^Some of that is based on the official. The actual rule is no neck cranking, and some unfortunately take it too far to mean no manipulation of the head at all.
     
  9. Falsedawn

    Falsedawn Mansa Platinum Member

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    Ok, so here's another thing i'm a little shady on. We were doing randori the other day and a guy who had a background in wrestling shot in for a double leg on me. It wasn't particularly forceful, but I had a narrow base and he managed to take advantage of it. On the way down however, I managed to pull guard and started working for a sweep or sub, but my sensei called ippon for my opponent because I did hit my back. So here's the question; what really constitutes ippon? I was under the impression that it was a relatively controlled and powerful throw that put the opponent on their back, but I could be very wrong. Is it if you hit your back at all from a takedown or is there a little more to it?
     
  10. Auspex

    Auspex Brown Belt

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    An ideal ippon is where you land on all or the majority on your back. A driving double leg or decent morote gari puts uke in the position pretty easily. Pure double leg attacks like this are not allowed in Judo competetion anymore.

    I've always had good ne-waza, but since I started doing BJJ a year ago my ground skill has increased immensely. It's always funny, though, anytime I learn something new I bring it to my Judo class to talk about it with my Sensei. Every single time has demonstrated not only his awareness of the techniques, but expanded on it.

    Always wanted to smack him for not spending more time on this....but whatever, that's why I go to BJJ.
     
  11. DSGhST07

    DSGhST07 Blue Belt

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    "Powerful" is up to the judge. If you were double legged on your back, you were def ippon'd. Actually makes it worse if you try to pull guard while doing it, because you square yourself up while falling, which is for sure a ippon. If you try to land on your side instead THEN recover guard thats a diff story. Lots of throws doing have to be "powerful", as long as it was an attempted throw and got you down on your back, it counts. :icon_chee
     
  12. Falsedawn

    Falsedawn Mansa Platinum Member

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    Interesting. Glad I know that now, I was quite frustrated at myself after I got ippon'd because I figured I had screwed up, but I didn't quite know where I went wrong.
     
  13. Auspex

    Auspex Brown Belt

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    And it's a wierd line. Some have been called for going to their back AFTER successfully landing on their side.

    Sounds stupid, but in Judo tourneys only, I stay away from my back on the ground at all times. Judges can be blind and dumb.
     
  14. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    that sucks. landing on your side should be the green light you need to start newaza
     
  15. CajunJudoka

    CajunJudoka Judo Brown BJJ Brown

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    True story. I will rephrase that. Be mindful of applying force to the neck in Judo competition.
     
  16. spelingmastir

    spelingmastir White Belt

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    The two arts go together beautifully but especially because you are new to both, you should learn them with a clear mind. Don't go to judo class with the attitude that BJJ is better on the ground and vice versa. You'll learn more and be better at both for it. As you progress in both, you will naturally get a feel for the contrasting strengths and weaknesses of each.
     
  17. Rws177die

    Rws177die Yellow Belt

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    I was taking a judo course once a week on Saturday moring after doing BJJ for two years. When people would take me down I would submit them almost instantly so then they would throw me but not go to the ground. I didn't give a shit there because I was there to learn throws to help out with tournaments.
     
  18. Auspex

    Auspex Brown Belt

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    It does suck.

    Regardless of the discussions we have here about BJJ/Judo similarities, the referees and powers that be seem very set on differentiating the two in a sport environment.

    I'm not a national level competitor, so I can't comment on that level - But regionally, I get pretty flustered by the quick standups and the, sometimes gross, handling of matches that go to the ground.

    I've seen several players, after successfully getting out of a throw, rolling to their backs to begin some offensive guard work. On many of these occassions the ref was "unable" to tell a difference between changing position and getting thrown. :(
     
  19. Disastorm

    Disastorm White Belt

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    sorry this is off topic but everyones talking about refs/judges. I've never competed in any sports really but it sounds like people always say the refs suck in basically everything (judo, jiujitsu, wrestling). Why do organizations have such garbage refs it really makes me feel there would be no reason to compete because refs are so bad?
    Or is it just a case of people always mention the bad refs but the good ones don't get mentioned, but there are in fact many good ones?
     
  20. Falsedawn

    Falsedawn Mansa Platinum Member

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    Yeah, i'm definitely going in eager and open minded. I've done nogi grappling for about 6 or so months, but the gi is very intimidating. It doesn't help that I turtled the other day and got collar choked. Definitely a different monster than nogi. I love it so far though.
     

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