Edgar vs. Mendes How does their striking match up?

[fluffball]

You have to factor in (as it seems you did) that Faber touching Edgar is not the same as Mendes haymakering Edgars head off. Edgar WILL get hit in the fight, and he may very well get rocked. I just don't see the big bomb landing on Edgar.

If I were a betting man, I'd put a lot on Edgar. I'm not though, and I think it would be silly to put any money at all on Edgar. He may get KOd in the first punch.

 

[fortheo]

Mendes power seems to be a bit exagerated in here. He tagged Aldo flush many times and I doubt Aldo's chin is much better than Edgar's. I'm sure Edgar will be fine. He recovered from like three knockdowns in one round against Maynard. Of course if it's Herb he may stop the fight when one fighter falls just once because he thinks it's boxing.

 

[PivotPunch]

Don't think Mendes strikes succinctly enough to catch Edgar with one of those big bombs. He strikes with unusual athleticism. He will catch Edgar, but not enough to stop him.

Here is the unusual power he brings. Try to picture "Li'l Ferret Edgar" getting hit with that. I can't.

In a pure kickboxing match, I take Edgar 9/10 times.

Editor's Note: My wife has tried to get me to bet on MMA repeatedly because I pick the winner so often (in her opinion). I refuse to. I think nearly every fight is 50/50. It's pure chaos.

That gif was a pretty well timed counter from Mendes.

And Edgar got caught by lead rear hand uppercuts by Maynard safe to say Mendes can catch him and that was a younger Edgar.
Maynard is a good offensive striker but wild as fuck he has a George Foreman esque punching form.
The difference though is that Maynard leads and Mendes does his best work on the counter and he throws single strikes.

He did look worse vs mcGregor though even beside the cardio which might be because he isn't working with Ludwig anymore so not sure whether to expect to see the best version of a striker Mendes has ever been in the Mcgregor fight he fell apart once he landed single clean strikes and McGregor didn't drop to the ground then again not sure if edgar can tke the same punches McGregor took

 

[fortheo]

That gif was a pretty well timed counter from Mendes.

And Edgar got caught by lead rear hand uppercuts by Maynard safe to say Mendes can catch him and that was a younger Edgar.
Maynard is a good offensive striker but wild as fuck he has a George Foreman esque punching form.
The difference though is that Maynard leads and Mendes does his best work on the counter and he throws single strikes.

He did look worse vs mcGregor though even beside the cardio which might be because he isn't working with Ludwig anymore so not sure whether to expect to see the best version of a striker Mendes has ever been in the Mcgregor fight he fell apart once he landed single clean strikes and McGregor didn't drop to the ground then again not sure if edgar can tke the same punches McGregor took

Exactly. Edgar has improved a lot since then and hasn't really been rocked since the up kick by bendo which was what? 4 years ago?

Look at how Mendes struggled with the movement and basic striking of Guida. Mendes didn't have success until he got into scrambles and clinches.

 

[PivotPunch]

Exactly. Edgar has improved a lot since then and hasn't really been rocked since the up kick by bendo which was what? 4 years ago?

Look at how Mendes struggled with the movement and basic striking of Guida. Mendes didn't have success until he got into scrambles and clinches.

He has improved technically but his chin and reflexes surely wont get any better with age.

Mendes struggled so much with Guida's movement that he was the first guy to knock him out? Unlike some other guy who rocked the shit out of Edgar in 2 fights not long before that and really couldn't get to Guida.

Edgar hasn't been rocked because how should he? he fought an ancient BJ penn who had one of the worst performances of his career, he took Cub down at will and beat the shit out of him and fought someone like Faber who still doesn#t have anything on the feet but a right hand.

What was the last standup fight edgar had against someone who's comfortably striking? Maynard the guy who almost stopped a younger Edgar twice

 

[fortheo]

He has improved technically but his chin and reflexes surely wont get any better with age.

Mendes struggled so much with Guida's movement that he was the first guy to knock him out? Unlike some other guy who rocked the shit out of Edgar in 2 fights not long before that and really couldn't get to Guida.

Edgar hasn't been rocked because how should he? he fought an ancient BJ penn who had one of the worst performances of his career, he took Cub down at will and beat the shit out of him and fought someone like Faber who still doesn#t have anything on the feet but a right hand.

What was the last standup fight edgar had against someone who's comfortably striking? Maynard the guy who almost stopped a younger Edgar twice

As I said. He struggled with Guidas movement, hence why he needed to get Guida up against the cage to knock him out. He barely landed any clean shots before that. If Guida can dance around Mendes for two rounds, so can Edgar, and that may be all he needs to get the cardio edge.

Also, about the age of Edgar, I wasn't referring to his chin getting better; I was referring to the fact that he hasn't been hit hard in years, despite the fact that he's been facing great strikers (Aldo, Bendo, Cub). Although his chin may not have gotten better, It is safe to assume that his defense has gotten better; and if it has, which I do think it has, then the question of his chin holding up is moot because Mendes won't land bombs.

I see Mendes biting on feints and trying to land that overhand right only for Edgar to circle away and land his own punches. Similar to this

Edgar's feinting really confused Faber. I expect Mendes to have more success than faber, but I still expect to see Mendes wiffing a lot like this

 

[PivotPunch]

As I said. He struggled with Guidas movement, hence why he needed to get Guida up against the cage to knock him out. He barely landed any clean shots before that. If Guida can dance around Mendes for two rounds, so can Edgar, and that may be all he needs to get the cardio edge.

Also, about the age of Edgar, I wasn't referring to his chin getting better; I was referring to the fact that he hasn't been hit hard in years, despite the fact that he's been facing great strikers (Aldo, Bendo, Cub). Although his chin may not have gotten better, It is safe to assume that his defense has gotten better; and if it has, which I do think it has, then the question of his chin holding up is moot because Mendes won't land bombs.

A pressure fighter needs to get a mover who never stands his ground against the cage/ropes before he can land.....shocking

If it is so easy to get Guida against the cage and land shots how come the guy who almost stopped Edgar twice and somehow managed to land on him couldn't do it?

Mendes was the ONLY guy who ever managed to get Guida against the cage for long enough to do serious damage and the list of fighters who failed to do so include guys like Pettis.

Edgar hasn't fought on the feet against any competent offensive striker since Maynard so how can you even know for sure that he improved his defence enough for it to matter against mendes?

 

[fortheo]

Edgar hasn't fought on the feet against any competent offensive striker since Maynard so how can you even know for sure that he improved his defence enough for it to matter against mendes?

Benson, cub swanson , and Jose Aldo aren't competent offensive strikers?

I didn't expect trolls in the striking section. sigh.

 

[shpboris]

he fought an ancient BJ penn who had one of the worst performances of his career

Just before this fight Penn was completely fine and Edgar was huge underdog. IMO, Penn looked bad due to Edgar's specific skill set + speed advantage.

 

[fortheo]

That gif was a pretty well timed counter from Mendes.

Mendes does his best work on the counter and he throws single strikes.

A pressure fighter needs to get a mover who never stands his ground against the cage/ropes before he can land.....shocking

There's no discrepancy in your statements there at all...hmm. I was claiming that Mendes would be biting down on Edgar's feints, which would prevent his "best work on the counter" as you say. And since I believe Edgars Feints would prevent Mendes Counters, then mendes would have to cut the cage off and do some great boxing in transitions and in the clinch like he did gainst Guida. However, he struggled for two rounds to get Guida in that position. Guidas distance control and skills in the transition are not as good as Edgars, so I expect edgar to do better and confuse Mendes through ought the fight till Mendes slows down.

 

[PivotPunch]

Benson, cub swanson , and Jose Aldo aren't competent offensive strikers?

I didn't expect trolls in the striking section. sigh.

I forgot about Aldo. And I said fought on the feet Edgar took Swanson down at will and dare I say that Swanson is a good striker but beatable as seen against Holloway and Swanson did struggle a little bit with Siver.

And benson isn't a striker he's a versitale grinder and he can strike but in a pure striking match he would lose to a ton of MMA fighters and almost all the fights he mostly fought on the feet where fights where many thought he lost or fights he really lost.

Just before this fight Penn was completely fine and Edgar was huge underdog. IMO, Penn looked bad due to Edgar's specific skill set + speed advantage.

most people have no idea what they are talking about. I didn't know that Penn was the favourite and that's ridiculous he lost twice to Edgar and was about 40 years old cutting down the lowest he ever did after fighting years at 170.

I didn't expect him to fight as retarded as he did but I still favoured Edgar.
And Penn was "completely fine"? Everyone who thought Penn was "fine" is the same kind of idiot who thinks that every new year is the year Shogun comes back to form, thought Lidell would come back after every ko loss and thinks Rampage is still an elite LHW.

Penn was a 40 year old LW fighting at WW making a cut for the first time to FW and to make things worse he fought the most retarded fight of his entire career and on top of that all he was fighting someone who beat him twice and who could and did outwrestle him at will.

Is this a serious post of yours or a strong case of irony I didn't get because this post can't be meant seriously.

There's no discrepancy in your statements there at all...hmm. I was claiming that Mendes would be biting down on Conors feints, which would prevent his "best work on the counter" as you say. And since I believe Edgars Feints would prevent Mendes Counters, then mendes would have to cut the cage off and do some great boxing in transitions and in the clinch like he did gainst Guida. However, he struggled for two rounds to get Guida in that position. Guidas distance control and skills in the transition are not as good as Edgars, so I expect edgar to do better and confuse Mendes through ought the fight till Mendes slows down.

Mendes struggled for 2 rounds to pin Guida down and got the job down in decisive fashion while notably Manyard and pettis struggled for 3 rounds to pin him down and one of them lost and Maynard had a close fight and many others couldn't do shit at all against guida.

Yeah Edgar's defence is so much better that Maynard bashes the shit out of him twice in a row but couldn't hurt or even hit Guida cleanly in an entire 3 round fight.

Edgar is consistent and elite and probabky an ATG but a lot is based on a combination of toughness, stamina, fight IQ and pretty good skills but he isnt an ATG in any particular area and is old both in fighting years and in real years

 

[shpboris]

I didn't know that Penn was the favourite and that's ridiculous he lost twice to Edgar and was about 40 years old cutting down the lowest he ever did after fighting years at 170.

I was referring to first Edgar - Penn fight. Then Penn was 32 years old after very convincing wins over Sanchez and Florian.

 

[PivotPunch]

I was referring to first Edgar - Penn fight. Then Penn was 32 years old after very convincing wins over Sanchez and Florian.

that fightt was 5 years and a few months ago it was a fresh Frankie Edgar and while BJ was much closer to his best physically I think it was around that time he stopped doing S&C work and got a bit lazy (not saying it's the reason he lost).

Also Bj has a long side on stance which makes it harder for everyone to fight movers and on top of that it was Edgar changing from boxing to wrestling that fucked Penn up he basically GSP'd Penn but Mendes is physically super strong, has a different stance and style and I#m not sure anyone has much success wrestling him least in the early rounds.

It makes more sense comparing more recent fights and while MMAth rarely is the answer it at least suggests that Edgar is one trouble if he does things similar to what he did against maynard and considering that he couldnt adjust in the 3rd Maynard fight knowing exactly what to expect Ill just assume that he still has the same defensive flaws

 

[shpboris]

that fightt was 5 years and a few months ago it was a fresh Frankie Edgar and while BJ was much closer to his best physically I think it was around that time he stopped doing S&C work and got a bit lazy (not saying it's the reason he lost).

Also Bj has a long side on stance which makes it harder for everyone to fight movers and on top of that it was Edgar changing from boxing to wrestling that fucked Penn up he basically GSP'd Penn but Mendes is physically super strong, has a different stance and style and I#m not sure anyone has much success wrestling him least in the early rounds.

It makes more sense comparing more recent fights and while MMAth rarely is the answer it at least suggests that Edgar is one trouble if he does things similar to what he did against maynard and considering that he couldnt adjust in the 3rd Maynard fight knowing exactly what to expect Ill just assume that he still has the same defensive flaws

My post was unrelated to Mendes vs Edgar discussion - just wanted to say that Edgar IMO got a very well deserved win against quality opponent in his first fight vs Penn.

About Edgar vs Mendes - I am not sure how it will go to say the truth. Style wise in terms of technique I favor Edgar, but Mendes is a very talented guy physically ... So I wouldn't bet on such fight )))

P.S.
Btw, also interesting how the wrestling part of their fight will play out ...

 

[fortheo]

*delete post*

 

[fortheo]

you talk about things like the Penn fights, or you make statements like this about the maynard fight

Yeah Edgar's defence is so much better that Maynard bashes the shit out of him twice in a row but couldn't hurt or even hit Guida cleanly in an entire 3 round fight.

Yet then you don't realize the Irony when you say things like this:

It makes more sense comparing more recent fights and while MMAth rarely is the answer it at least suggests that Edgar is one trouble if he does things similar to what he did against maynard and considering that he couldnt adjust in the 3rd Maynard fight knowing exactly what to expect Ill just assume that he still has the same defensive flaws

You say all it makes sense to critique recent fights, yet all you're focused on are Edgars fights from 4 years ago.



So I repeat:

Exactly. Edgar has improved a lot since then and hasn't really been rocked since the up kick by bendo which was what? 4 years ago?

What was the last standup fight edgar had against someone who's comfortably striking? Maynard the guy who almost stopped a younger Edgar twice

Benson is a more than competent striker, he's not just a competent grinder as you say. He outstruck Cowboy.Edgar had a competitive fight with Aldo, the best striker in the division. He also stood with Swanson for a large part of round one and two. He has had stand up fights and he has shown growth in that department while fighting against elite condition. There is a reason why you need to dig years back to find an example of Edgar getting rocked, and it's not because he hasn't been fighting elite guys, it's because Edgar has improved.

 

[a guy]

As the title says, I'm curious about how you guys think their striking matches up against each other. I'd critique them myself, but I suck at it and I'm more curious about the opinions of more knowledge striking fans.

Lol @ "I suck at it".

As I said. He struggled with Guidas movement, hence why he needed to get Guida up against the cage to knock him out. He barely landed any clean shots before that. If Guida can dance around Mendes for two rounds, so can Edgar, and that may be all he needs to get the cardio edge.

Also, about the age of Edgar, I wasn't referring to his chin getting better; I was referring to the fact that he hasn't been hit hard in years, despite the fact that he's been facing great strikers (Aldo, Bendo, Cub). Although his chin may not have gotten better, It is safe to assume that his defense has gotten better; and if it has, which I do think it has, then the question of his chin holding up is moot because Mendes won't land bombs.

I see Mendes biting on feints and trying to land that overhand right only for mendes to circle away and land his own punches. Similar to this

Edgar's feinting really confused Faber. I expect Mendes to have more success than faber, but I still expect to see Mendes wiffing a lot like this

There's no discrepancy in your statements there at all...hmm. I was claiming that Mendes would be biting down on Conors feints, which would prevent his "best work on the counter" as you say. And since I believe Edgars Feints would prevent Mendes Counters, then mendes would have to cut the cage off and do some great boxing in transitions and in the clinch like he did gainst Guida. However, he struggled for two rounds to get Guida in that position. Guidas distance control and skills in the transition are not as good as Edgars, so I expect edgar to do better and confuse Mendes through ought the fight till Mendes slows down.

you talk about things like the Penn fights, or you make statements like this about the maynard fight




Yet then you don't realize the Irony when you say things like this:



You say all it makes sense to critique recent fights, yet all you're focused on are Edgars fights from 4 years ago.



So I repeat:







Benson is a more than competent striker, he's not just a competent grinder as you say. He outstruck Cowboy.Edgar had a competitive fight with Aldo, the best striker in the division. He also stood with Swanson for a large part of round one and two. He has had stand up fights and he has shown growth in that department while fighting against elite condition. There is a reason why you need to dig years back to find an example of Edgar getting rocked, and it's not because he hasn't been fighting elite guys, it's because Edgar has improved.

Sure you do :icon_conf

 

[fortheo]

Lol @ "I suck at it".







Sure you do :icon_conf

I'm not being modest. I obviously still have opinions, but I'm very uneducated with analyzing striking compared to a lot of people in this section. I like your posts and I hope to hear your thoughts on this fight!

 

[a guy]

I'm not being modest. I obviously still have opinions, but I'm very uneducated with analyzing striking compared to a lot of people in this section. I like your posts and I hope to hear your thoughts on this fight!

Well you're smarter than you're giving yourself credit for, at the very least.

The only thing I'd really add to your points is that Mendes is best at countering guys who are trying to keep him off them. He doesn't move well on the back foot. He tends to stand up straight and start dancing. When he's putting pressure on guys and making them feel like they HAVE to swing, that's when he does his best work. It's very tough to sit there and wait for somebody like Frankie to come to you. Yea, he's a slow starter and you might catch him with a few counters early, but he'll adapt, start feinting and disrupting your timing and sense of distance. Mendes has to put pressure on Edgar before he can counter him. Edgar has to keep Mendes turning, and ideally push him back a little when possible. I give the edge to Edgar, but Mendes will probably land a few clean punches early that Edgar is gonna have to endure.

I don't see either guy being able to take down and hold down the other guy, or either guy submitting the other. I'm expecting a lot of striking, some shots mixed in but mostly with the intent of setting up opportunities on the feet. It's a fight I'm really looking forward to.

 

[fortheo]

Well you're smarter than you're giving yourself credit for, at the very least.

The only thing I'd really add to your points is that Mendes is best at countering guys who are trying to keep him off them. He doesn't move well on the back foot. He tends to stand up straight and start dancing. When he's putting pressure on guys and making them feel like they HAVE to swing, that's when he does his best work. It's very tough to sit there and wait for somebody like Frankie to come to you. Yea, he's a slow starter and you might catch him with a few counters early, but he'll adapt, start feinting and disrupting your timing and sense of distance. Mendes has to put pressure on Edgar before he can counter him. Edgar has to keep Mendes turning, and ideally push him back a little when possible. I give the edge to Edgar, but Mendes will probably land a few clean punches early that Edgar is gonna have to endure.

I don't see either guy being able to take down and hold down the other guy, or either guy submitting the other. I'm expecting a lot of striking, some shots mixed in but mostly with the intent of setting up opportunities on the feet. It's a fight I'm really looking forward to.

Exactly. That's the same way he caught Lamas, and that's a large part of how he managed to solve the Guida puzzle. That's why I think Mendes's ability to cut off the cage and stalk/pressure Edgar will be what either makes or breaks this fight for him. If Mendes does what he did in the first two rounds of the Guida fight, then Edgar will dance around him all day and feint and jab at a safe distance. I do hope that edgar pressures Mendes though, because as you said and as Conor and Aldo has shown—Mendes is not that great on the back foot.

I just think that Edgar has a bit more options on the feet than Mendes, but of course Mendes is always dangerous.