Edgar Vs Aldo (stand up) Who has the edge? Who wins?

The power is the difference, as much as Edgar landed; it was clear he hadn't hurt Aldo, knocked him off balance ...caught him out of position or slowing down. But he never hurt him...Aldo dropped Frankie with a leg kick, almost dropped him with another, threw Edgar to the ground defending a shot..ragdolled him. On top of that he busted Frankie up from the first round on, every jab and straight right moved him back, every hook or kick moved him around.

Frankie had no tech answer for what Aldo did...he just soakes up abuse and avoided the kill shots until Aldo slowed; then he began to come back, but even them he wasn't really able to counter or effect initiate offense.
 
^ What fight were you watching? Edgar hit Aldo with many jolting shots all the way through rounds 4 and 5. Edgar did his usual non stop pressure and movement and when Aldo lost his edge due to fatigue Edgar came into his own as he always does. Fresh Aldo has the edge in every area but championship fights are 5 rounders and Edgar has an edge in conditioning and pace over everyone in the UFC bar Mighty Mouse (who incidentally edged his recent fight due to conditioning against a faster harder hitting opponent). Fair dues to Aldo he didn't slow down that much which is why he won the third.

This fight went down pretty much as said here:
Aries said:
As long as he doesn't lose all of the first 3 rounds. In fact I predict the 3rd round winner will determine the overall winner imho.
Aldo clearly took the first two and Edgar the last couple with the winner of round 3 winning the fight and for me that was Aldo. Edgar needed to be able to get to Aldo or minimse the damage he took in the first rounds to be in with decent chance of winning. Aldo was clearly respectful of Edgars takedowns and elected to kick rarely with Edgar landing far more leg kicks through the fight, albeit not nearly as powerful he did slow Aldo down with them. I don't see where Edgar will go from here. Both champs have his number.
 
What this fight told me was Aldo is going to be champion for a long time. He will only lose to someone who is more skilled than him in terms of standup... same as Anderson. If a hard working, high paced, high cardio, guy like Frankie with tons of heart can't beat him, you are going to need to out "skill" him. And I dont see anyone doing that. Like Aries said, You are going to have to out "skll" him in the first 3 rounds. You can't wait until the last 2 to out "heart" and "cardio" him. It's too late by then.

Aldo def won that fight
 
What this fight told me was Aldo is going to be champion for a long time.

TBH, Aldo tooled Frankie the first two rounds. The third could've gone either way, the fourth Frankie won and the fifth Aldo lost decisively. I thought Aldo would finish Frankie in 3, but Frankie actually impressed me on his feet. He was able to fight Aldo's fight and still keep it close. As I expected, Frankie wasn't ready to handle Aldo's movement, and not because he's to fast. Aldo is exceptionally quick in and out and gets to position to attack without overcommiting, gets in range attacks and is gone. Frankie had a real tough time adjusting to that early, but by round 3 he made the adjustments. Aldo didn't really look any slower later in the fight, what happened IMO is that Frankie adjusted and once he did he was able to strike with Aldo and he did it sucessfully. I think that if and when Frankie get's another shot at Aldo it'll be a different fight and a much tougher fight for Aldo, and this was already his toughest fight. Frankie can beat him....... It's Aldo who will have to make the adjustments next time, can he is the question. He's been so dominant fighting his way and with his style, but Frankie figured him out, just a little too late. Next time, it will be Aldo who's gonna have to adjust his style and fight outside of his "safety net"......... that's just my take.
 
^^ Hmmm. I might have to watch it again. Granted I was at a bar watching the fight. But from what I saw, Frankie started to handle Aldo only because Aldo started to fade. He basically out worked him. How did Frankie figure Aldo out? Frankie was just out skilled from what I saw. What adjustments did he make by the third?
 
^^ Hmmm. I might have to watch it again. Granted I was at a bar watching the fight. But from what I saw, Frankie started to handle Aldo only because Aldo started to fade. He basically out worked him. How did Frankie figure Aldo out? Frankie was just out skilled from what I saw. What adjustments did he make by the third?

Frankie circled and waited on Aldo early, he'd advance but wouldn't really commit. Truth is, he gave Aldo too much respect, he played safe. By the third, Frankie started advancing more, he started getting off first and his connect percentage improved. When Frankie felt that sense of desperation, he stopped circling and waiting, he cut angles came forward struck first and attacked Aldo. He stopped using those brief "pauses" when looking to engage, that was the adjustment that really made Aldo appear more vulnerable and seem "slower". Sure he slowed down a bit, but the real difference IMO wasn't that Aldo slowed that much, it was that Frankie started really committing to engaging with him and stopped that brief hesitation in his initiating an attack. Watch close, you'll see that "pause" or hesitation is what Aldo is so good at exposing, he uses subtle feints (misdirection, foots feints, etc....) that bait that "pause", then he attacks and is out. He is very good at frustrating his opponents into fighting outside their ideal range, he makes them hesistant and that's when he's most dangerous. Although his style is much different, he uses a very similar tactical approach to initiating offense as does Machida, they essentially set the same "trap". He makes you hesitant to commit to attacking him, he baits those pauses and delays with feints or misdirection and he forces guys to fight out of there range or overcommit out of frustration and then he punishes them.

When Frankie committed to his attacks, stopped pausing and realized he had to take that "extra step" to get into his range, he was effective and Aldo became vunlerable. You'll clearly see that Aldo was spot on with that jab early, he was sticking Frankie with it every time he "paused". But when Frankie stopped trying to time and counter Aldo and fight an in-out fight, he commited to his attacks and Aldo started missing that jab, abandoned his leg kicks and was forced to fight at a much closer range "in the pocket"....... Then Frankie's striking became far more effective and he was landing clean and consistently on Aldo. Smart pressure and commitment to engaging Aldo took away his greatest advantage, time & distance...... When Frankie commited to fighting at the mid range (boxing range) and not playing the in-out game, he was very effective. Same thing that Shogun did to Machida and Sonnen did to Silva, they took away their time & space and that's what those guys use so well against their opponents.
 
Now that I think about it, that is what happened. Good post.
 
Frankie circled and waited on Aldo early, he'd advance but wouldn't really commit. Truth is, he gave Aldo too much respect, he played safe. By the third, Frankie started advancing more, he started getting off first and his connect percentage improved. When Frankie felt that sense of desperation, he stopped circling and waiting, he cut angles came forward struck first and attacked Aldo. He stopped using those brief "pauses" when looking to engage, that was the adjustment that really made Aldo appear more vulnerable and seem "slower". Sure he slowed down a bit, but the real difference IMO wasn't that Aldo slowed that much, it was that Frankie started really committing to engaging with him and stopped that brief hesitation in his initiating an attack. Watch close, you'll see that "pause" or hesitation is what Aldo is so good at exposing, he uses subtle feints (misdirection, foots feints, etc....) that bait that "pause", then he attacks and is out. He is very good at frustrating his opponents into fighting outside their ideal range, he makes them hesistant and that's when he's most dangerous. Although his style is much different, he uses a very similar tactical approach to initiating offense as does Machida, they essentially set the same "trap". He makes you hesitant to commit to attacking him, he baits those pauses and delays with feints or misdirection and he forces guys to fight out of there range or overcommit out of frustration and then he punishes them.

When Frankie committed to his attacks, stopped pausing and realized he had to take that "extra step" to get into his range, he was effective and Aldo became vunlerable. You'll clearly see that Aldo was spot on with that jab early, he was sticking Frankie with it every time he "paused". But when Frankie stopped trying to time and counter Aldo and fight an in-out fight, he commited to his attacks and Aldo started missing that jab, abandoned his leg kicks and was forced to fight at a much closer range "in the pocket"....... Then Frankie's striking became far more effective and he was landing clean and consistently on Aldo. Smart pressure and commitment to engaging Aldo took away his greatest advantage, time & distance...... When Frankie commited to fighting at the mid range (boxing range) and not playing the in-out game, he was very effective. Same thing that Shogun did to Machida and Sonnen did to Silva, they took away their time & space and that's what those guys use so well against their opponents.


i think part of frankie's hesitancy was respecting aldo's power and athleticism, he didn't want to totally commit to those rushes until he saw aldo start to slow; once you get tired the more subtle tricks/setups become hard to perform, you get back to the general movements or attacks. So once aldo got away from doing those things as consistently and fluidly, frankie began to pick up his aggression and lessened his hesitation.

frankie isn't realy a pressure guy in the sense of attacking and throwing alot and moving you back, he is more of an activity guy; he moves around alot, backing up..circling away. Then he explodes on you w/ a flurry or burst then backs out at an angle or backs out and circles away; he waits until you make a committed attack then explodes forward and catches you out of position or backing up when you see him coming.

i am not saying frankie didn't make adjustments, but i had to believe part of his plan was to control the distance, pick his spots, keep aldo out of rhythm and limit aldo's opp at offense w/his movement and when aldo slowed ramp it all up. Its too dangerous to chase a takedown or press him early, esp when you have to be that close to do your best work; aldo has faster and sharper hands early, and his uppercut off the jab or knee off the jab is most effective early.

once aldo slows, his offense gets pretty pedestrian; an it happened in this fight too, no flying knee attempts, a noticeable drop in kicks, the jab disappeared a bit. An those counters, combinations became fewer and farther between, the sharpness of them wasnt there either.

not saying frankie isnt a tech fighter, but i still believe movement is his biggest asset or cardio or that combination; he is on the move and whether its circling away, moving back or just moving all over the place, switching stances, going in and out. Guys who move are just harder to hit..which is common sense..alot of mma guys don't really move that much..they aren't used to it, because most guys come forward, most guys attack. When a guy makes you chase its more work and it exposes holes in your footwork, because now you don't have a guy doing half the work for you. That is what frankie does..he gets guys chasing and since their footwork is limited and in the case of his opp their strikign is limited; they waste alot of energy chasing him, so when they stop in hopes of getting him to engage, he potshots them and gets going or he shoots in w/a brief flurry putting them on the def or forces them to overcommit and takes them down or creates a scramble where he comes up swinging and puts them on the def. If a guy has many mult adv over you striking, you do things that limit his opp to use those things, limits his chances to use all of those things, limits his opp to do what he wants to do. In the case of aldo he wants you to chase a takedown, or put it on you early (to get you out) so that if you last late your ability or will to come forward is lessened cus u know what is waiting if your not on point.

in mma and in general 90% of the people come forward or more or less stay in front of you, people still aren't accustomed to people who choose to circle or circle w/a purpose and guys who back up and do that w/a purpose.

not that i am disagreeing w/you, just looking at the other side...
 
^ What fight were you watching? Edgar hit Aldo with many jolting shots all the way through rounds 4 and 5. Edgar did his usual non stop pressure and movement and when Aldo lost his edge due to fatigue Edgar came into his own as he always does. Fresh Aldo has the edge in every area but championship fights are 5 rounders and Edgar has an edge in conditioning and pace over everyone in the UFC bar Mighty Mouse (who incidentally edged his recent fight due to conditioning against a faster harder hitting opponent). Fair dues to Aldo he didn't slow down that much which is why he won the third.

This fight went down pretty much as said here: Aldo clearly took the first two and Edgar the last couple with the winner of round 3 winning the fight and for me that was Aldo. Edgar needed to be able to get to Aldo or minimse the damage he took in the first rounds to be in with decent chance of winning. Aldo was clearly respectful of Edgars takedowns and elected to kick rarely with Edgar landing far more leg kicks through the fight, albeit not nearly as powerful he did slow Aldo down with them. I don't see where Edgar will go from here. Both champs have his number.

i meant from the perspective of the judges, frankie tends to look like he is getting the hell beat out of him, even when he is winning fights he looks beat to hell. In watching that fight it would seem aldo was doing more damage w/less shots; my logic is like this spin it backwards, if aldo landed as much as frankie or frankie landed as much as aldo would it look much different. My answer, no frankie would still look like he got beat up and aldo would still look like he was in a fight; but not the same fight as edgar.

aldo simply did much more damage w/a lower workrate and accuracy...frankie lands a hell of alot of punches in most fights and rarely puts guys away or really hurts them; aldo lands 3-5 shots and is dropping guys, sending them stumbling, having them run from him, stopping them dead in their tracks or stopping them period.

in watching the fights it seemed aldo did more damage w/his strikes period, even when he faded; he was still hurting edgar, even when aldo faded..edgar was putting it on him w/volume. But he wasn't beating him up..not in my opinion.
 
I think Frankie can win...he needs to counter Aldo when he throws those leg kicks without a setup, using the right hand; not trying to shoot because Aldo doesn't put his hip into those for that reason. He can't chase takedowns esp after Aldo uses his jabs because its just a setup for that rear hand uppercut or a knee strike.

To me Frankie needs to maintain extended range and make Aldo have to attack from a distance he doesn't like, that way he can acclimate to Aldo timing and limit Aldo offensive attempts.. Aldo jab and straight right aren't really great. Edgard can counter both of those as long as he doesn't stay inside too long and make sure he takes sharp angles when he flurries/rushes, then he catches Aldo out of position then get out before he can get blasted with uppercuts or hooks.

Its all in and out and he needs to be willing to strike with him legitimately, not just to set up takedowns;alot of Aldo striking off is to make guys feel they have to clinch or shoot, instead of using def or counters. Gamburyan Swanson brown Mendez got blasted chasing takedowns in the middle of an exchange if I remember correctly.

Takedowns late is the best shot for Edgar, who doesn't land a huh percentage of takedowns; usually creating scrambles or opp to strike off failed shots. I think Edgar should also use kick catches, he has to do something with them and he cannot catch them flush like he did against Edgar.

The biggest threat is staying at the right range and not being predictable in his circling, if he can keep Aldo from settling in or getting his rhthym; he will most likely be able to score and setup the takedowns later in the fight. Also Edgar need to attack Aldo body..along with a hih pace he may make Jose lose a step early.

this was my keys to victory for edgar-most of it happened; but the mistake he made early, was getting stuck in between and getting lit up w/punches-kicks. He shot for takedowns early and didn't get alot of them, his best coming late (if i remember right); an late in the fight he did his best work, getting in (all the way). Early he was going in got froze off a feint/etc and got blasted.
 
i think part of frankie's hesitancy was respecting aldo's power and athleticism, he didn't want to totally commit to those rushes until he saw aldo start to slow; once you get tired the more subtle tricks/setups become hard to perform, you get back to the general movements or attacks. So once aldo got away from doing those things as consistently and fluidly, frankie began to pick up his aggression and lessened his hesitation.

frankie isn't realy a pressure guy in the sense of attacking and throwing alot and moving you back, he is more of an activity guy; he moves around alot, backing up..circling away. Then he explodes on you w/ a flurry or burst then backs out at an angle or backs out and circles away; he waits until you make a committed attack then explodes forward and catches you out of position or backing up when you see him coming.

i am not saying frankie didn't make adjustments, but i had to believe part of his plan was to control the distance, pick his spots, keep aldo out of rhythm and limit aldo's opp at offense w/his movement and when aldo slowed ramp it all up. Its too dangerous to chase a takedown or press him early, esp when you have to be that close to do your best work; aldo has faster and sharper hands early, and his uppercut off the jab or knee off the jab is most effective early.

once aldo slows, his offense gets pretty pedestrian; an it happened in this fight too, no flying knee attempts, a noticeable drop in kicks, the jab disappeared a bit. An those counters, combinations became fewer and farther between, the sharpness of them wasnt there either.

not saying frankie isnt a tech fighter, but i still believe movement is his biggest asset or cardio or that combination; he is on the move and whether its circling away, moving back or just moving all over the place, switching stances, going in and out. Guys who move are just harder to hit..which is common sense..alot of mma guys don't really move that much..they aren't used to it, because most guys come forward, most guys attack. When a guy makes you chase its more work and it exposes holes in your footwork, because now you don't have a guy doing half the work for you. That is what frankie does..he gets guys chasing and since their footwork is limited and in the case of his opp their strikign is limited; they waste alot of energy chasing him, so when they stop in hopes of getting him to engage, he potshots them and gets going or he shoots in w/a brief flurry putting them on the def or forces them to overcommit and takes them down or creates a scramble where he comes up swinging and puts them on the def. If a guy has many mult adv over you striking, you do things that limit his opp to use those things, limits his chances to use all of those things, limits his opp to do what he wants to do. In the case of aldo he wants you to chase a takedown, or put it on you early (to get you out) so that if you last late your ability or will to come forward is lessened cus u know what is waiting if your not on point.

in mma and in general 90% of the people come forward or more or less stay in front of you, people still aren't accustomed to people who choose to circle or circle w/a purpose and guys who back up and do that w/a purpose.

not that i am disagreeing w/you, just looking at the other side...

It wasn't the circling that handicapped Frankie, it was the waiting and hesitancy to engage. But there's a difference between hesitancy and patience. Sure, Frankie respected Aldo's power and athleticism (be foolish not to), but instead of being patient and finding the opportunities, then attacking without hesistation (smart pressure)........he was hesitant when he was trying to engage Aldo! That's what was getting him picked apart and that's when Aldo is the most dangerous . Frankie saw the opportunities but didn't commit to his offense, he hesitated "paused" and that's when Aldo's offense was most effective.

Against guy's like Aldo, Silva, Machida you can be patient looking for the opportunity to engage, but you can't be hesitant or non-commital when you are engaging them because that's exactly the "trap" those guys set and what they exploit the very best. That leads to one of two things, a hesitant opponent who gets picked apart systematically through the entire fight or a desperate opponent who becomes recklessly aggressive and gets KTFO. It's the "ill take one to give one" mentality that guys like Sonnen and Shogun possess that makes them such difficult opponents for those guys. They commit, don't hesitate and attack, the difference in Shoguns win vs. Sonnens loss was ego! Sonnen lost his patience and got reckless, he got overconfident. Shogun remained patient, didnt get overconfident or reckless in trying to force opportunities. Instead, he only commited without hesitation when he saw the opportunity to attack Machida.

Frankie made the mistake in the early rounds of not commiting, pausing and hesitating. However, once Frankie commited he was very effective and when he "took one, he gave one in return".

What could easily make the next fight between these two so tough for Aldo, is if Frankie will recognize that patience may be a good strategy early, but hesitation is not and is dangerous. Frankie felt that "sense of urgency" in the later rounds, and he stopped hesitating. If Frankie figures out how to attack the same way in the early rounds (commit and don't pause) and is just patient knowing the opportunities will become more and more as the fight progresses. Then he's gonna give Aldo fits and a far tougher fight. Aldo won that fight early and ultimately because he is so good at exposing a hesitant opponent.
 
It wasn't the circling that handicapped Frankie, it was the waiting and hesitancy to engage. But there's a difference between hesitancy and patience. Sure, Frankie respected Aldo's power and athleticism (be foolish not to), but instead of being patient and finding the opportunities, then attacking without hesistation (smart pressure)........he was hesitant when he was trying to engage Aldo! That's what was getting him picked apart and that's when Aldo is the most dangerous . Frankie saw the opportunities but didn't commit to his offense, he hesitated "paused" and that's when Aldo's offense was most effective.

Against guy's like Aldo, Silva, Machida you can be patient looking for the opportunity to engage, but you can't be hesitant or non-commital when you are engaging them because that's exactly the "trap" those guys set and what they exploit the very best. That leads to one of two things, a hesitant opponent who gets picked apart systematically through the entire fight or a desperate opponent who becomes recklessly aggressive and gets KTFO. It's the "ill take one to give one" mentality that guys like Sonnen and Shogun possess that makes them such difficult opponents for those guys. They commit, don't hesitate and attack, the difference in Shoguns win vs. Sonnens loss was ego! Sonnen lost his patience and got reckless, he got overconfident. Shogun remained patient, didnt get overconfident or reckless in trying to force opportunities. Instead, he only commited without hesitation when he saw the opportunity to attack Machida.

Frankie made the mistake in the early rounds of not commiting, pausing and hesitating. However, once Frankie commited he was very effective and when he "took one, he gave one in return".

What could easily make the next fight between these two so tough for Aldo, is if Frankie will recognize that patience may be a good strategy early, but hesitation is not and is dangerous. Frankie felt that "sense of urgency" in the later rounds, and he stopped hesitating. If Frankie figures out how to attack the same way in the early rounds (commit and don't pause) and is just patient knowing the opportunities will become more and more as the fight progresses. Then he's gonna give Aldo fits and a far tougher fight. Aldo won that fight early and ultimately because he is so good at exposing a hesitant opponent.

This is a great analysis and i agree with almost everything you said except I personally got the impression that Edgar fought with the same sense of urgency throughout but couldn't do anything with it until Aldo started to gas. In round 1, Edgar kept getting discouraged by stiff jabs when he tried to move in and ate some hard shots. Round 2 was pretty much the same, and I really think Aldo completely outclassed Edgar for these 2 rounds. Starting in round 3, Aldo was beginning to leave his mouth open, breathe heavy and look a little more tired. Edgar started to throw more strikes in each round while Aldo's output remained relatively constant in volume but decreased in accuracy and power. If Aldo was in better shape, I think he would have thrown more kicks with less fear of the takedown (especially since he had no trouble getting back up) and the fight would have turned into a beating. It just didn't seem like Frankie had a way to get past the jabs and leg kicks until Aldo stopped throwing kicks and stopped jabbing with authority.
 
This is a great analysis and i agree with almost everything you said except I personally got the impression that Edgar fought with the same sense of urgency throughout but couldn't do anything with it until Aldo started to gas. In round 1, Edgar kept getting discouraged by stiff jabs when he tried to move in and ate some hard shots. Round 2 was pretty much the same, and I really think Aldo completely outclassed Edgar for these 2 rounds. Starting in round 3, Aldo was beginning to leave his mouth open, breathe heavy and look a little more tired. Edgar started to throw more strikes in each round while Aldo's output remained relatively constant in volume but decreased in accuracy and power. If Aldo was in better shape, I think he would have thrown more kicks with less fear of the takedown (especially since he had no trouble getting back up) and the fight would have turned into a beating. It just didn't seem like Frankie had a way to get past the jabs and leg kicks until Aldo stopped throwing kicks and stopped jabbing with authority.

100% agree with everything you wrote. Aldo slowing down even by fractions of a second was enough for Frankie to find his rhythm, timing and range. I think Aldo was tentative with the kicks because Frankie showed a couple of times he was more than willing to take the hit and counter with a strike or TD. And even though he was getting back up, Aldo must have been aware that TD's score.
 
100% agree with everything you wrote. Aldo slowing down even by fractions of a second was enough for Frankie to find his rhythm, timing and range. I think Aldo was tentative with the kicks because Frankie showed a couple of times he was more than willing to take the hit and counter with a strike or TD. And even though he was getting back up, Aldo must have been aware that TD's score.

That definitely was it, Aldo actually said later that he realized Frankie was waiting for the kicks to take him down so he stopped throwing them. I think he was aware that takedowns score and also that both throwing kicks and grappling are much more exhausting than jabbing, and he was smart enough to know that he needed to save his energy against Edgar, who always comes on stronger each round. Honestly, I think if Edgar put more effort into using his cardio as a weapon (more so at lightweight, but he can definitely outwork guys at 145 too) by working the body and moving forward a little more then he'd probably start seriously dominating guys by the third round.
 
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