Eddie Bravo's "Point System"

[lethalazn]

YouTube - Submissions 1 on 1 with Eddie Bravo pt 2

What's your opinion on this guys?

I naturally go for what he calls "deadzones" (i.e. some sort of arm triangle/gift wrap/S-mount) after i establish position anyways but I don't get why you'd reward triangle/darce more than arm triangle or other "dead-zones" though ()

 

[Mikey Triangles]

wow, this sounds really out there, but it could be interesting. I'd definitely like to check out one of these comps sometime, but the rules sound extremely bizarre.

 

[jasond]

I wouldn't want it to become the standard, but I think competing under different rules / points systems every now and then would be cool and keep things fresh.

 

[Napp]

Just heard about it.
Sounds pretty interesting though

 

[Mikey Triangles]

I wouldn't want it to become the standard, but I think competing under different rules / points systems every now and then would be cool and keep things fresh.

well I think what Eddie is trying to say by doing this is that 10thPJJ is not BJJ, and is a different style with different rules that took a different evolutionary path. Just like BJJ did off Judo a few years back. It's going to be interesting to see if it takes off, but with those rules I can't see it being very popular right now.

 

[RubberRyan]

in the rubberguard book the deadzones he mentions are where the % of completing a submission are really high like teh spiderweb, pyramid etc..... as far arm triangles go ive had people block them even after i've had it locked in ...same with darce

 

[BruinPride]

I'd definitely like to see top caliber guys compete with these rules. It will make for some very exciting matches.

 

[Wrestleben]

I can't see a tournament like this working consistently. If it was just for 10pjj style, I wouldn't think they'd be able to draw enough competitors for a big tourney. If it was any style, I think the rules would prohibit a big tournout to make it successful.

That being said I'm all for tourneys that encourage more submissions.

 

[BJJ Beginner]

I'd much rather see more submission-only tournaments popping up.

 

[Ring>>Cage]

I'll reserve judgement when I see the tourney. I don't get his criticism of Gi training. If you care for nogi grappling then you train nogi and shed gi habits.

 

[randyrATX]

This sounds like a middle ground between traditional jiu jitsu and submission only tourneys. Very interesting in a positive way.

He makes a good point about scrambles and awarding points. There always seems to be someone at a tourney who feels screwed because of points be awarded against them or not being awarded for them.

Curious to see how people like it.

 

[Kimuralex]

goes against like all of what lloyd irvin preaches, lloyd is all about the transition, and eddie talks about putting the guy in truck, spiderweb or back and then seeing who gets the finish quicker.

I think points for takedowns, sweeps and guard passes should be given, it gives motivation to improve position and not stall....if i know i can not pass his guard and stall out then get to pick a good position to attack from(like eddie says), ill do just that.

 

[Aref The Ref]

YouTube - Submissions 1 on 1 with Eddie Bravo pt 2

What's your opinion on this guys?

I naturally go for what he calls "deadzones" (i.e. some sort of arm triangle/gift wrap/S-mount) after i establish position anyways but I don't get why you'd reward triangle/darce more than arm triangle or other "dead-zones" though ()

You know this seems exciting, and once I get a purple belt years from now, I will definitely enter a 10th Planet Tournament. However, this isn't football. This isn't baseball. This is Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, a martial art, turned sport for the sake of competition. It is most similar to Wrestling and Judo, where you accumulate points throughout. BJJ began as self defense on the street, a takedown on the street (concrete) leaves YOU in dominant position. Passing the guard to side, gives you control. Sweeping your opponent to get to the top definitely deserves points.

 

[Calibur]

well I think what Eddie is trying to say by doing this is that 10thPJJ is not BJJ, and is a different style with different rules that took a different evolutionary path. Just like BJJ did off Judo a few years back. It's going to be interesting to see if it takes off, but with those rules I can't see it being very popular right now.

What different evolutionary path?

Breaking someones posture? That isn't evolutionary.

Forcing all of your students to use the same kind of guard? Not much more evolutionary than the delariva guard, or the X-guard, etc.

Rolling without a gi? There were BJJ guys who had exclusive no-gi gyms before Bravo.

The difference is, Eddie is taking moves and using those as definitions of his style. Not philosophies. What makes BJJ different than grappling styles before it is that it is position based. I don't see how 10pjj is any different than no gi bjj.

10pjj is a gimmic. Very recently, I have started thinking it is going to do more harm to grappling than good. How many BJJer's would support a coach who said that you had to be able to bench 200 pounds to get a black belt? How many BJJer's would support a coach that said you had to run a 4.8 in the 40 yard dash to be an instructor? Why does Eddie get a pass for demanding natural attributes from his students?

Not only that, but he makes everyone use pretty much the same guard, in the same way.

*NOTE, I have never trained in one of his schools*

He is trying to create a lot of mini-Bravo's, and that just isn't responsible. If Carlson Gracie thought like that we wouldn't have DeLaRiva. Hell, if Jean Jacque Machado thought that way we wouldn't have Eddie Bravo. Eddies style of teaching seems to make the game more narrow, not more evolutionary. Particularly since everyone is trying to do the same thing in the same way. He is essentially taking a lot of different body types and making them fight in a way that suits HIM really well.

 

[Aref The Ref]

What different evolutionary path?

Breaking someones posture? That isn't evolutionary.

Forcing all of your students to use the same kind of guard? Not much more evolutionary than the delariva guard, or the X-guard, etc.

Rolling without a gi? There were BJJ guys who had exclusive no-gi gyms before Bravo.

The difference is, Eddie is taking moves and using those as definitions of his style. Not philosophies. What makes BJJ different than grappling styles before it is that it is position based. I don't see how 10pjj is any different than no gi bjj.

10pjj is a gimmic. Very recently, I have started thinking it is going to do more harm to grappling than good. How many BJJer's would support a coach who said that you had to be able to bench 200 pounds to get a black belt? How many BJJer's would support a coach that said you had to run a 4.8 in the 40 yard dash to be an instructor? Why does Eddie get a pass for demanding natural attributes from his students?

Not only that, but he makes everyone use pretty much the same guard, in the same way.

*NOTE, I have never trained in one of his schools*

He is trying to create a lot of mini-Bravo's, and that just isn't responsible. If Carlson Gracie thought like that we wouldn't have DeLaRiva. Hell, if Jean Jacque Machado thought that way we wouldn't have Eddie Bravo. Eddies style of teaching seems to make the game more narrow, not more evolutionary. Particularly since everyone is trying to do the same thing in the same way. He is essentially taking a lot of different body types and making them fight in a way that suits HIM really well.

Not necessarily. Eddie has a different system. For normal BJJ schools, our instructors teach us the same number of guards: closed, spider, delariva, x, and then some others like octopus, 93 guard, sitting guard, etc... So eddie has different setups which his students have the options of using. Alot of the moves are pre-existing, except he has tweaked and organized them in to a new system. If you read his books, you will see that he is clearly not forcing his students to use only one path. There are HUNDREDS of options he lays out. That, and the word is that in 10th Planet, no one is 'wrong" everyone tries new things, Bravo said that himself, so they are not narrowing they are expanding.

 

[Kyle Holt]

This is the beginning. Just like how Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Boxing, etc all have the same overall principle (beat an opponent through standing up), but don't much associate, the same will occur in Jiu Jitsu. Soon 10PJJ, BJJ, submission grappling, and I'm sure a bunch of new styles will exist, but they'll have their own tournaments with their own rule sets and specific focus on specific moves. Hopefully Jiu Jitsu guys will still just roll with each other.

 

[Calibur]

That, and the word is that in 10th Planet, no one is 'wrong" everyone tries new things, Bravo said that himself, so they are not narrowing they are expanding.

Eddie Bravo is a man of absolutes, which is one reason why I think he rubs some people the wrong way. In his books count how many times you see "this is by far the best way to ...."

If he said "no one is wrong" He means "no one is wrong if they are experimenting of things I taught them."

You don't need to have a rubber guard to have black belt level jiu jitsu, and you definitely don't need to be able to touch your foot to your head. Sorry, but when you give your students grappling parameters like that, you are narrowing.

 

[BeRGLeZ]

I'm all for fights winning by subs rather than points. Really irks me seeing people stall for a win on points or doing the bare minimum to get points and then simply stagnating. Roger vs Xande is an example, it's just bs; some may call it strategy but I think it's just whoring the rules.

 

[Drew Foster]

What different evolutionary path?

Breaking someones posture? That isn't evolutionary.

Forcing all of your students to use the same kind of guard? Not much more evolutionary than the delariva guard, or the X-guard, etc.

Rolling without a gi? There were BJJ guys who had exclusive no-gi gyms before Bravo.

The difference is, Eddie is taking moves and using those as definitions of his style. Not philosophies. What makes BJJ different than grappling styles before it is that it is position based. I don't see how 10pjj is any different than no gi bjj.

10pjj is a gimmic. Very recently, I have started thinking it is going to do more harm to grappling than good. How many BJJer's would support a coach who said that you had to be able to bench 200 pounds to get a black belt? How many BJJer's would support a coach that said you had to run a 4.8 in the 40 yard dash to be an instructor? Why does Eddie get a pass for demanding natural attributes from his students?

Not only that, but he makes everyone use pretty much the same guard, in the same way.

*NOTE, I have never trained in one of his schools*

He is trying to create a lot of mini-Bravo's, and that just isn't responsible. If Carlson Gracie thought like that we wouldn't have DeLaRiva. Hell, if Jean Jacque Machado thought that way we wouldn't have Eddie Bravo. Eddies style of teaching seems to make the game more narrow, not more evolutionary. Particularly since everyone is trying to do the same thing in the same way. He is essentially taking a lot of different body types and making them fight in a way that suits HIM really well.

Good post. It really put into words, what I've been unable to successfully express.

 

[mego]

sounds interesting