Eddie Bravo's No-Gi Hypothetical Question

[DiscipleOfPog]

Eddie's hypo is retarded bc its an unrealistic situation. Really a more accurate hypo would be a guy who trains both, vs a guy who trains just nogi.

My money will be on the guy who trains both every time.

That's why it's hypothetical. If it was realistic it would just be a question.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Has anyone ever broke down why they think training in the Gi helps someone's No Gi game?

 

[DiscipleOfPog]

Has anyone ever broke down why they think training in the Gi helps someone's No Gi game?

It is said that training in the gi makes you focus more on proper technique, especially defensively, because you can't slip and move as easily.

This is one point I'm sure there are others.

 

[codemonkey76]

I know this is wildy off topic but Ive always wondered why this board is so anti marijuana. Why is that?

Maybe because retards bring up marijuana like the sites slogan is Heaping fistfulls of Herbology. This is a site dedicated to Mixed Martial Arts and its various counterparts, not weed smoking.

 

[lechien]

Has anyone ever broke down why they think training in the Gi helps someone's No Gi game?

not really, i am more interested in that tattoo of Jesus on the cross wearing a gameness gi.

 

[codemonkey76]

Has anyone ever broke down why they think training in the Gi helps someone's No Gi game?

The ideal situation would be to train in a gi, but have all your partners in no-gi. Then you get the best of both worlds. Your opponent will be able to use your gi to hinder your movement and even submit you (so you have to develop better escapes and submission defense). But you will not be reliant on using Gi controls to control your slippery opponent.

 

[joe90210]

The ideal situation would be to train in a gi, but have all your partners in no-gi. Then you get the best of both worlds. Your opponent will be able to use your gi to hinder your movement and even submit you (so you have to develop better escapes and submission defense). But you will not be reliant on using Gi controls to control your slippery opponent.

isn't that what BJ is doing for his upcoming fight?

 

[NinjaBlack]

I've never read the book, I probable never will.

What is the point of the story?
That Tiger Woods can beat Michael Phelps in golf?
And Michael Phelps can swim faster than Tiger?

Why was that thought worthy of putting in a book?




In my opinion if you want to get good at BJJ, do BJJ.

 

[Calibur]

Has anyone ever broke down why they think training in the Gi helps someone's No Gi game?

Umm, I kind of did once.

1. When you roll with a gi the grips only work from topside if you put pressure in the right area. Once you have experience in the gi, your ability to put pressure on the right areas to maintain positions will be much higher. Areas like the diaghram, femur, jaw, and other not so obvious spots.

2. When you roll with a gi their are grips you can get on certain parts of the limbs from different positions and scenarios that kill your opponents movements. This works in no gi too, but it is very difficult to practice because the game moves much faster. After practicing in a gi your hands will go to those spots more naturally than a no gi only player which will help you kill guard work faster.

3. When you roll no gi you can slip out of submissions more easily, but with a gi you have to know exactly where to push and HOW to pull. After doing gi work you will instictively know how to break submissions at different stages of their implementation but will now be able to apply the slipperiness and explosions that nogi provides.

4. As mentioned before, in gi work if you mess up your posture you will get killed. Defending gi chokes inside your opponents guard is all about protecting the biggest lever in your body, the spine. After tons of practice in the gi you will retain good spine structure naturally which gives you a much stronger base, which will help you defend just about any rubber guard attack even if you have never seen the set up before.

5. In gi work you have more options for open guard which is all about shrimping, framing, and most importantly knee rotation. While spider guard isnt very useful in no gi, a good spider guard player will have enough leg and shin dexterity to defend many guard passes naturally in no gi. Especially if they are based on speed and not pressure.

I hope this gives you some ideas. IMO it is possible to get really good at BJJ without touching the gi, but it takes a teacher with a lot more vigilance, discipline, and knowledge. The gi is darwinism at it's finest. If your fundamentals are wrong while wearing a gi you will get tapped until you fix the problem. That rule doesnt apply as often without the gi. You don't need as much careful coaching without the gi, because gi training regulates itself. That's why it is considered more techincal.

 

[newerest]

so why are the guys who train nogi once a week smashing the guys who only train nogi?

probably has something to do with the fact that those elite grapplers have been training since age 5 and where in countries where elite grapplers are very common

nah, it has to be the gi. :icon_conf

 

[platfox]

Why not listen to the champions? Almost all the way across the board, they all agree - training in the gi is important to becoming the best grappler you can be.

I can only think of Eddie who says otherwise, and he's not even a champion. USed to be a good competitor and had a great win over Royler, but still not a champion or maybe not even considered elite.

 

[Styrkur]

Eddie wasn't even a has been.. He never was.. Why would I listen to his retarded ideas when we've witnessed ADCC events became filled with champions who trained with Gi. All Eddie does now is play crap music and smoke pot, never competes anymore so to me, he is a nobody now. He doesn't matter in the BJJ or grappling world. It's just his fan boys that bring him up constantly.

 

[Bruce Calavera]

I havent read eddies books so idk what thats all about. if he dedicated an entire chapter or something to how awesome MJ is then that would be ridiculous. Everyone already knows how awesome MJ is eddie.

Fuck yeah! I want to read an entire chapter about Michael Jordan in a BJJ book. It would be an interesting perspective on a legend.

 

[nohuff]

so josh barnett isn't one of the best nogi?
the best bjj guys usually tend to be badass at nogi simply because they train a shit load of both in general...
marcello does 5 days gi 1 day no gi
he does a whole day of training nogi a week...that's more than most people train at all in a week.
Mat time > wearing a gi.
the best judo guys don't go and fuck shit up in greco roman.

I agree with this. Mat time > all. I like Gi and NoGi and I believe each helps the other. How?

I think Gi forces you to be much more conscious of submissions. In NoGi it is much easier to slip out of a submission or just explode out of something. Gi training forces you to use more technique in your escapes and less athleticism. Example: You can't jerk your arm out of an armbar when someone has a sleeve and elbow grip. You have to escape technically.

Something a lot of folks don't recognize is that NoGi helps your Gi game. NoGi tends to be much more dynamic and less reliant on grips. You can't just pin someone down with a scarf hold and think through the situation. You have to transition better and more often. It makes your BJJ more fluid.

 

[lethalazn]

Something a lot of folks don't recognize is that NoGi helps your Gi game. NoGi tends to be much more dynamic and less reliant on grips. You can't just pin someone down with a scarf hold and think through the situation. You have to transition better and more often. It makes your BJJ more fluid.

and doing No-Gi also it makes your back control even more dangerous when your opponent has to put a Gi on (I know this because I did exclusively no-gi for over a year and when I put the Gi on, my back control was even nastier)

 

[Cavpilot]

In answer to the original question- you have to look at the rules.

If you put equally talented guys in a no-gi match, the guy who trains exclusively no-gi will have an advantage over the guy who trains exclusively Gi (there was no cross-training involved in the scenario).

If you put the same two guys in a gi match, the Gi guy will have an advantage.

It's just like putting a boxer and an MMA guy together- In MMA rules, the MMA guy has an advantage (though the boxer still has a chance). If you put the same two guys in a boxing match, the boxer has an advantage.

It's all about familiarity with a set of rules and environment and equipment.


Regarding the question about why Gi guys do well in no-gi competitions is that
a) those guys cross train
b) Those guys who are winning train 4-6 times a week. It doesn't matter if you train gi or no-gi, you will kick ass if you train that much.


Regarding how many champions Eddie Bravo has produced- I believe Denny Prokopos, the first 10th Planet Black Belt, won Mundials when he was a brown belt in his weight class.

All the traditional guys say you should train gi to get better at no-gi because they are traditional BJJ guys and of course they are going to say the Gi is the greatest way to train. That doesn't necessarily make it true. Like I said earlier- if you train 4-6 days a week both gi and no gi, you are going to be an amazing grappler- it doesn't mean that the gi makes your no-gi better- just that you have a ton of experience and mat time. That formula = success.
FWIW, I started no-gi for a year and a half before putting on a gi. Then I went to gi, and was like: "This is awesome! this guy has handles all over his body! Woo Hoo!"

As a result, I actually think that the inverse is true:

Training no-gi makes your Gi game better.

Bottom line, you should train both to be good at both. If you prefer one to the other though, stick with it, and don't knock the other style.

 

[nightbird]

We should bring this on the Steve Wilkos Show. Yeah, that'll settle it.

 

[newerest]

People in this thread are really saying that the reason why marcello, roger, xande, jacare, etc are all so good at no gi is because of the gi

it's not because they've been training hardcore for their whole lifes huh? or the fact that they had elite black belts teach them from an early age? or the fact that on one day a week they train (lets say 10-6 pm with breaks in between for food) that's roughly 7 hours of training a day.

most people on this board train 2-3 times a week 2 hours a session. no shit they will be better than everyone that takes this sport as a hobby.

The gi definitely makes you better in one aspect that I consider important and that's predicting. with the gi you have to be able to predict what your opponent is going for based on the grips he has and the option he has available to him. not to mention all the crazy spider guard/reverse DLR sweeps that you have to worry about because of the control given.

With all that being said, whenever I go to competition the wrestlers that adapted their wrestling to add submissions fuck up all the gi guys in no-gi. Why???? They don't train with the gi??!

Mat time. Mat time. Mat time.

 

[crocoppertones]

it is like this other hypothetical question:

A legend and a douchebag compete against each other in ADCC, who wins?

both

eddie beats royler = dbag wins
leo dominates eddie = dbag loses

Damn, I feel like eddie since i made a public statement and brought up eddie beating royler.

Now, if I could go tone deaf and grow a dbag soul patch I could be another step to becoming the fungus that is Eddie Bravo.

hmmm
how do you really feel?

 

[Calibur]

People in this thread are really saying that the reason why marcello, roger, xande, jacare, etc are all so good at no gi is because of the gi

it's not because they've been training hardcore for their whole lifes huh? or the fact that they had elite black belts teach them from an early age? or the fact that on one day a week they train (lets say 10-6 pm with breaks in between for food) that's roughly 7 hours of training a day.

most people on this board train 2-3 times a week 2 hours a session. no shit they will be better than everyone that takes this sport as a hobby.

The gi definitely makes you better in one aspect that I consider important and that's predicting. with the gi you have to be able to predict what your opponent is going for based on the grips he has and the option he has available to him. not to mention all the crazy spider guard/reverse DLR sweeps that you have to worry about because of the control given.

With all that being said, whenever I go to competition the wrestlers that adapted their wrestling to add submissions fuck up all the gi guys in no-gi. Why???? They don't train with the gi??!

Mat time. Mat time. Mat time.

I'd say the wrestlers are simply better conditioned. Those guys are better conditioned than a "SW" guy because generaly speaking, grappling gyms DON'T run their gyms like a wrestling class. Real simple. Gi guys still dominate, and it is not a numbers game when you think about it. The gi guy who wins the nogi tournament was still better than the strictly nogi guy he fought.

Yeah, their are outliers like Josh Barnett, but in my experience gi guys are still more technical than nogi guys. I can usually feel it in a couple of seconds when rolling with a guy with tons of mat time experience and no gi experience.

I do both. I like both, and I don't care about this argument so much. People shouldn't do nogi if they don't like it, but all evidence points to it making you better at all aspects.

Keep in mind Marcello Garcia and Jacare started when they were in their teens, no different than a lot of nogi guys, so the mat time argument doesn't hold that much weight.

For the record, I do think their are differences in nogi and gi, and in the future their will be more strictly nogi champs winning comps, but I honestly think a big part of that will be due to gi guys gravitating to gi specific games, where in the past old school guys would still consider nogi applications when rolling with a gi.

I'm drunk btw, so ignore this post if it dont make no sense.