EC stack

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by Nemesis48, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Nemesis48

    Nemesis48 Blue Belt

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    Recently read Lyle McDonald's rapid fat loss diet and was surprised to see him claiming that EC stack is extremely effective at increasing fat loss and metabolism. Ever the skeptic, I hit pubmed and found that it's true -EC stack is clinically proven to have a significant impact on weight loss. So I want to try.

    From what I understand ephedrine HCL is still legal in the US - my question is, is it as effective as Ephedra and where do you get either? Another question is.. does caffeine tolerance effect the efficacy of the stack? Should I detox from coffee/caffeine before starting a stack?

    Would appreciate any resources/your experiences with EC or links.
     
  2. golvmopp

    golvmopp Always outnumbered, never outgunned

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    What's the ole adage when it comes to supplements? "It's either legal or effective".

    But for realz, I wanted to try an ECA-stack as well when I embarked on this year's "cut", but given how much of an addict's personality I have that's probably a shitty idea. I'm curious to take part of any answers you'll get, though!

    Where's my popcorn?
     
  3. Nemesis48

    Nemesis48 Blue Belt

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    Don't do aspirin in the stack if you do it - it doesn't increase efficacy and can fuck up your stomach lining/liver.
     
  4. golvmopp

    golvmopp Always outnumbered, never outgunned

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    I live, I learn. Thanks mang.

    Still feel like having popcorn tho.
     
  5. Nemesis48

    Nemesis48 Blue Belt

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    Apparently Gorilla Jack is a good supplier of Ephedrine HCL supplements. Kaizen is the flagship product.
     
  6. Nozza

    Nozza Purple Belt

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    What do you call a "significant impact" on weight loss? What numbers are we talking about here compared to say cutting a 100 cals or walking a mile extra a day?

    Personally I don't see the point unless you're a bodybuilder desperate to remove the last % of fat for a competition. Pounding heart, sweats, anxiety, stomach ache and possible dangerous side effects for something you can achieve anyway.
     
  7. Nemesis48

    Nemesis48 Blue Belt

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23686786

    In this one recent study one group averaged 11 lbs lost in a 24 week trial. That's pretty significant over placebo.

    Here's some classic studies:
    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=196247
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8384187
    http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v26/n5/full/0802023a.html


    I started a stack yesterday night with bronkaid for the ephedrine and a 240mg caffeine energy drink for the caffeine. Gonna do this on the regular for a week:

    25 mg epe/200 mg caffeine 0600
    25 mg epe/200 mg caffeine 1200
    25 mg epe/6 cups coffee caffeine 1800
    240 mg caffeine energy drink 2000 (lifting days only)

    I won't be able to sustain the stack with Bronkaid, as when I got it from Walmart they checked me in a national database to see if I had bought this recently - apparently it can be used to create meth so they only let you get 1 box a month. FUCKING meth heads. So unless I can find another alternative, I may have to order Canadian. This should be enough for a week long trial.

    I feel really amazing on the stack. My energy levels are insane. No negative side effects at this time. A recent, massive Danish study also found no cardiovascular side effects:
    http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/168/8/966.full
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
  8. Nozza

    Nozza Purple Belt

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    Are you talking about two different trials? The one you linked to and another with no link?

    The first link points to an abstract so it's hard to evaluate exactly what happened in the trial, especially in terms of their calorie intake. I'm not savvy enough to interpret the results to be honest. Can someone tell me exactly what -6.5
     
  9. Nemesis48

    Nemesis48 Blue Belt

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  10. Nozza

    Nozza Purple Belt

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    Where do get 6 weeks from - the abstract mentions 24 weeks?

    Are you sure they're talking about loss in pounds? The 11 figure is not for CE alone and so not really relevat here.

    It says the group treated with CE alone lost -5.9
     
  11. Nemesis48

    Nemesis48 Blue Belt

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  12. Nozza

    Nozza Purple Belt

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    The more I think about it, the less likely it is they are referring to absolute figures in pounds because the range of weights of the subjects would no doubt vary. So you'd surely give the results as averaged percentages or other fractions. Otherwise it's not significant. 5lb loss of a 15 stone man is not the same significance as a 5lb loss of a 25 stone man.

    if it's percentages then 5% overall weightloss over 24 weeks isn't much. And then we cannot tell, without reading the whole study, what controls there were for calories. E.g. was it down to thermogenesis or did the EC takers tend to eat less because they felt so shakey and ill?!
     
  13. TXstriker

    TXstriker White Belt

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    Don't waste your time with gorilla jack, haven't been able to order in months due to problems in "customs and shipping to the US". They will let you order then send an email stating problems in shipping to the US they wont process your card either. Ephedrine is in a drought, meth heads ruining everything. If someone has a site (I've searched everywhere) to order more than one fkicng box from PM me.
     
  14. Nemesis48

    Nemesis48 Blue Belt

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    So i looked up the federal guidelines on buying ephedrine (what else to do at a boring office job?):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Methamphetamine_Epidemic_Act_of_2005

    It's 9 grams/month on a federal level. As there are 25mg in each pill, and 24 pills/package - I could buy 15 boxes/month, which is WAY more than I need (4). So I guess I could sustain this stack without buying from Canada. I think I could also buy 6 boxes at a time (maximum).
     
  15. Mcmoon

    Mcmoon Green Belt

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    The Ephedrine you need to effectively do the stack in the U.S. is illegal to buy outright. What you need to do is go down to your local pharmacy and buy some bronkaid. Thats what most people use in the U.S. Pretty much any store bought EC stack supplement will be crap and the the Ephedrine isnt the correct form.
     
  16. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    From Wikipedia. On the issue of legality:

    "In 2004, the FDA created a ban on ephedrine alkaloids that are marketed for reasons other than asthma, colds, allergies, other disease, or traditional Asian use.[28] On April 14, 2005, the U.S. District Court for the District of Utah ruled that the FDA did not have proper evidence that low dosages of ephedrine alkaloids are actually unsafe,[29] but on August 17, 2006, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit in Denver upheld the FDA's final rule declaring all dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids adulterated, and therefore illegal for marketing in the United States.[30] Furthermore, ephedrine is banned by NCAA, MLB, NFL, and PGA TOUR.[31] Ephedrine is, however, still legal in many applications outside of dietary supplements. However, purchasing is currently limited and monitored, with specifics varying from state to state."


    Any product using ephedra or ephedra alkaloids marketed for weight loss is illegal in the US at any dosage.




    As a licensed Chinese Medicine practitioner with a focus on Chinese herbs who is actually legally allowed to recommend ephedra including supplements (primarily as a bronchodilator / decongestant), I'm here to tell you that using ephedra or ephedra derivatives for weight loss or as workout supplements is stupid and dangerous.


    Can it help with weight loss? Yeah, it can. Was it ever in the traditional record as a safe effective way to lose weight? No.

    It's considered to be toxic, not for long term use, and strongly diaphoretic and diuretic. IE it will make you sweat more and pee more.

    It also has a wonderful tendency to instigate elevated and irregular heart rate, this tendency is dose dependent.

    And of course the appetite suppressant effect is common to many stimulants, including Ritalin, meth, and cocaine.

    But here's the problem. You take something that can F with your heart and also dehydrates you via sweat and urine and go do intense exercise with it in your system. But now you're getting dehydrated faster even if you're drinking water because you are sweating much more. You can easily end up with an electrolyte imbalance that affects the heart, and when you couple this with elevated and / or irregular heart rate from the ephedra itself + the increased cardiovascular demands of the training you are engaged in and BAD THINGS CAN HAPPEN.

    Using ephedra for weight loss is unsafe and unintelligent. If you want to lose weight eat better (and less) and exercise more.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
  17. Nemesis48

    Nemesis48 Blue Belt

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    Those claims are not supported by evidence - and in the Danish study I linked completely debunks them. If you're going to make such outlandish claims, you better have something to back it up, even anecdotes.

    On another topic, my research indicates that adding aspirin to the stack can be effective for obese individuals - but i dont know if i'm fat enough to benefit. I'm going to try a week of ECA after two weeks of this, and if it proves effective, going to try 1 week/month of aspirin cycling. I am not ballsy enough to do daily supplementation of aspirin for any extended amount of time.

    Also, I will try adding in citrus arantium (900-1000 mg/daily) to the stack eventually

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12939122
    www.hflsolutions.com/lo/ingredients/AZ_2002_Preuss.pdf
     
  18. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    It's your life and your heart, but when the FDA banned it as unsafe for a weight loss supplement and only suitable for short term use as a bronchodilator / decongestant, and multiple Chinese herbal textbooks as well as a consensus of California board certified primary care practitioners who specialize in the area of medicine which has centuries of empirical and clinical data and familiarity with its use ALL RECOMMEND AGAINST USING IT FOR WEIGHT LOSS.................



    you have to be a desperate fool to take it anyway for weight loss based on one Danish study.
     
  19. Chest Rockwell

    Chest Rockwell Brown Belt

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    ephedrine hcl is as safe as any form of stimulant out there. If one wants to talk about the side effects of stimulants in general, thats fine, but ephedrine was attacked wrongfully by the gov't for reasons that have little to do with health.

    the efficacy of the ec stack has been proven time and time again both clinically and in the real world.

    Having said that would i recommend stims for weight loss for people? Hell no. Too high a risk for developing dependence, increasing heart rate, blood pressure, adrenal fatigue, etc.

    And TS i'd lose the energy drinks and just get some caffeine tabs, avoid the excess cost and sweeteners and other junk.
     
  20. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    Stimulants as a weight loss aid while effective are extremely problematic.





    And I've told people 1000 times, if you are spending any significant amount of money on energy drinks buy a bottle of caffeine pills, a B vit complex, and take 1 of each with water.
     

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