EBI 4 Countdown

Honestly, this is my gripe with 10th Planet in general. They really hype their competitors by citing tournaments but never their actual opponents. When you look up the opponents, its B level talent. Its unfair to put them on the same level as the guys that have been battling against A level talent.

Well, the good news is that Geo will finally be facing those top guys. We'll get to see what he can do against the big dogs. I know Joao is gonna be tough, but I think Cummings is gonna be the toughest. He's training specifically for this style of competition and doing overtime drills. I think he really wants it.
 
I don't disagree with your sentiment there. But as far as his actual opposition, his biggest win would definitely be Jeff Glover, who is an ADCC medalist and a NoGi Worlds champ. He's not a super young and healthy competitor anymore but Glover can still beat most people nogi at his weight on any given day.

I think a lot of people are giving some hype to Geo based on the potential they see. I saw Weidman vs Galvao and knew Weidman would be special. I say Jones vs Bonnar and knew called that Jones would be a champion. I'm not comparing Geo to those guys, but I do see the way he grapples and I just think that he is very good and will be successful.

I mean, other people have gotten praise for winning the ADCC Trials with all submissions. Keenan Cornelius, Jeff Glover, Ryan Hall, and Eddie Cummings all come to mind. I'm pretty sure. All of those names (besides Cummings obviously) went on to medal at the actual ADCC. So there's a pattern there of people subbing everyone at the trials going on to be successful at the event. So I do think that's a cool accomplishment.

I don't think you're being super unfair. Quality of opposition in tournaments matters. I'm just thinking out loud.

See thats just it. Winning ADCC trials here in the states is a crapshoot.With Nogi, there are only 2 tournaments that is sure to have elite talent.ADCC and NoGi Worlds. Many of these Nogi guys refuse to do NoGi Worlds due to the ruleset so they do these tiny tournaments where they rack up wins. Pretty much everytime they go against a legit NoGi Worlds BB competitor around the same weight,they get smashed.Jeff Glover has been out of the scene for years and Ryan Hall seemed to peak around Purple/Brown Belt.Last EBI they had a Blue belt, Barret Yoshida who is 40 years old and competing in Masters, and quite a few unheard of guys.In the end,IBJJF guys that aren't really considered elite did really well. Its like the top scorer in the Chinese Basketball league constantly referring to himself as on the same level of Lebron James and Kobe Bryant.
 
Last edited:
Well, the good news is that Geo will finally be facing those top guys. We'll get to see what he can do against the big dogs. I know Joao is gonna be tough, but I think Cummings is gonna be the toughest. He's training specifically for this style of competition and doing overtime drills. I think he really wants it.

Possibly. In the past they have always given the top 10th Planet guys the favorable matchups.
 
I've never watched one of these before - could someone remind me the format?

It's a 16 man tournament, but will they only have one match at a time? It starts at 10PM EST so that's a lot of matches to go through to get to a winner.
 
Possibly. In the past they have always given the top 10th Planet guys the favorable matchups.

H'es going to have to face at least Joao or Eddie no matter what unless someone actually beats one of them.

See thats just it. Winning ADCC trials here in the states is a crapshoot.With Nogi, there are only 2 tournaments that is sure to have elite talent.ADCC and NoGi Worlds. Many of these Nogi guys refuse to do NoGi Worlds due to the ruleset so they do these tiny tournaments where they rack up wins. Pretty much everytime they go against a legit NoGi Worlds BB competitor around the same weight,they get smashed.Jeff Glover has been out of the scene for years and Ryan Hall seemed to peak around Purple Belt.

Smashed? Or outpointed? Can't think of any 10th planet black belts getting smashed in IBJJF. Just out pointed.
 
H'es going to have to face at least Joao or Eddie no matter what unless someone actually beats one of them.



Smashed? Or outpointed? Can't think of any 10th planet black belts getting smashed in IBJJF. Just out pointed.

I meant smashed in any ruleset. Denny was hyped to be one of the best Grapplers ever but he clearly looked over matched against Wilson Reis and Rader.Neither of those guys are Elite in IBJJF.In EBI 3 the IBJJF competitors clearly did much better than the 10th Planet guys in an unfamiliar ruleset. Three of the Final 4 of EBI 3 were IBJJF competitors who had success,but would be longshots to win Worlds.It just gets me how these guys claim to be among the best,but have never won the tournaments that the best are in.

I hate to come off as shit talking,but it just seems so unfair to the competitors out there actually putting it on the line against the best.That needs to count for something.
 
Honestly, this is my gripe with 10th Planet in general. They really hype their competitors by citing tournaments but never their actual opponents. When you look up the opponents, its B level talent. Its unfair to put them on the same level as the guys that have been battling against A level talent.

I think also that Eddie Bravo's defacto boycott of the biggest tournaments is a bit of a convenient excuse. Joao Miyao has been facing the best guys at the biggest tournaments every month for several years, has a style that is well studied, and has a remarkably high finishing rate; yet when he 'only' gets a silver at Worlds it's seen as a failure. On the other hand, if a 10th Planet guy does well at an ADCC Trials it's suggested as validation of a "revolutionary" style that is, conveniently, rarely tested against the best competitors.
 
I think Geo it's defenitely pretty good.

With that said, i still can't consider his match with Glover a valid match up.

That's what is sketchy for me with this overtime thing... I do like the Overtime concepts but i really do not like this "who escaped the back quicker wins" in case of a draw.

I mean, in my opinion, Jeff Glover was clearly better throughout the 10minute match.

Anyway, i still think Geo is an awesome competitor.
 
I've never watched one of these before - could someone remind me the format?

It's a 16 man tournament, but will they only have one match at a time? It starts at 10PM EST so that's a lot of matches to go through to get to a winner.

The matches are back to back with very little time between. My memory is rusty but I think it's 10 minute sub only. With 3 overtime rounds of 2 minutes. The final I believe is 20 minute sub only. I think the OT rules are the same. So that's 12 matches at a 13 minute max and one match at 23 minute max. That's 179 minutes if my math is right. Just around 3 hours. Most UFC's are 4 hours and start about the same time.

Also, that's the MAX time for matches. With the sub only format, not too many matches make it to OT. Especially with the money incentive. $5K for a sub. $0 if you win in overtime. The $20K grand prize is dependent on finishing all of your fights. If you win the whole tourney with just OT wins, you end up with only $5k. I would assume these guys are out to rack up $20 g's.
 
I meant smashed in any ruleset. Denny was hyped to be one of the best Grapplers ever but he clearly looked over matched against Wilson Reis and Rader.Neither of those guys are Elite in IBJJF.In EBI 3 the IBJJF competitors clearly did much better than the 10th Planet guys in an unfamiliar ruleset. Three of the Final 4 of EBI 3 were IBJJF competitors who had success,but would be longshots to win Worlds.It just gets me how these guys claim to be among the best,but have never won the tournaments that the best are in.

I hate to come off as shit talking,but it just seems so unfair to the competitors out there actually putting it on the line against the best.That needs to count for something.

I haven't been around the BJJ internets long enough to know about the Denny hype. When I watched the absolute absolute, I remember Denny being out grappled, but not really smashed. Reis really had no intention of tapping Denny. So yeah, I don't consider that smashing. I admit that Reis clearly won the match. Same with florida boy. I forget his name. He wasn't really doing much past the takedown. He was just looking to use counter jiu jitsu. Rader put on the best showing of the three in my opinion. Rader actually went for passes and subs and actually got the sub. And acting like Rader is a scrub is unfair to so many people. Rader is a beast man. No shame in losing to him.

I guess we perceive matches differently. But in the end I get what you're saying.

While I don't like the IBJJF rule set for entertainment value, I do believe that playing according to those rules does make you better at jiu jitsu as a whole even if you're not great at submissions. And I believe that's why guys like Cummings, Tonon, and Geo do so well. They're used to going for the kill and only for the kill.
 
I haven't been around the BJJ internets long enough to know about the Denny hype. When I watched the absolute absolute, I remember Denny being out grappled, but not really smashed. Reis really had no intention of tapping Denny. So yeah, I don't consider that smashing. I admit that Reis clearly won the match. Same with florida boy. I forget his name. He wasn't really doing much past the takedown. He was just looking to use counter jiu jitsu. Rader put on the best showing of the three in my opinion. Rader actually went for passes and subs and actually got the sub. And acting like Rader is a scrub is unfair to so many people. Rader is a beast man. No shame in losing to him.

I guess we perceive matches differently. But in the end I get what you're saying.

While I don't like the IBJJF rule set for entertainment value, I do believe that playing according to those rules does make you better at jiu jitsu as a whole even if you're not great at submissions. And I believe that's why guys like Cummings, Tonon, and Geo do so well. They're used to going for the kill and only for the kill.


I hate IBJJF rules, but if you watch any IBJJF tournament you'll see that the top competitors (i.e. the eventual medalists) submit nearly everybody they face in the first few rounds; it is only in the final rounds, when meeting their equals, that the matches turn into stallfests and advantage-preening. You don't think any top IBJJF competitor wouldn't dominate the junior-level sub only circuit like Cummings, Tonon, and Geo do?
 
I hate IBJJF rules, but if you watch any IBJJF tournament you'll see that the top competitors (i.e. the eventual medalists) submit nearly everybody they face in the first few rounds; it is only in the final rounds, when meeting their equals, that the matches turn into stallfests and advantage-preening. You don't think any top IBJJF competitor wouldn't dominate the junior-level sub only circuit like Cummings, Tonon, and Geo do?

I do agree that the best competitors usually do the best regardless of ruleset. Cobrinha won ADCC and went for tons of reaping heel hooks but was perfectly fine with winning 4 NoGi World titles without being able to reap at all.

All that said I do think there are your rare competitors really do excel outside of IBJJF rules and that it doesn't make them B-level grapplers.

I really don't know why the IBJJF won't just allow heel hooks for black belt nogi.
 
You know I've been training with Denny before he even was officially 10 planet
I understand and agree with dislike of the stupid 10 pl fan boys and " it's the revolution "
And eddy does push a lot. He is hyping his brand and team

I've met/ know most these 10 p guys and all of them are super humble and chill ( well one seems to have a little attitude) I never have heard them act like they are the shit and they give respect when do
And you wouldn't know it from the internet but they are respected as well
Does ebi put purple belts in where I think it should be a black? Yea
Eddie is growing it as he wants and it's going well. Nothing is perfect
When the ibbjf allows reaping, then the nogi is worth it Imo

I guess I'm saying don't hate da playa, hate the game
 
I do agree that the best competitors usually do the best regardless of ruleset. Cobrinha won ADCC and went for tons of reaping heel hooks but was perfectly fine with winning 4 NoGi World titles without being able to reap at all.

All that said I do think there are your rare competitors really do excel outside of IBJJF rules and that it doesn't make them B-level grapplers.

I really don't know why the IBJJF won't just allow heel hooks for black belt nogi.

Thats the thing. There is so much more to grappling than heelhooks. Sure,it is a valuable submission,but to avoid a whole organization because of a handful of submissions is wack.Especially when the talent level in that organization is so much higher. Its more of a convenient excuse to avoid the top competition and keep winning these small regional tournaments.
 


Leading up to EBI 4, we present to you a bit of what you can expect from EBI 4 with a highlight of EBI 3!

Featured in this video are submissions, submissions submissions!

That's right, every match from EBI 3 ended in submission either in regulation time or in overtime.

If that gets you pumped, be sure and tune into EBI 4 this weekend!

Broadcasting live from http://www.budovideos.com/ebi4
 
Thats the thing. There is so much more to grappling than heelhooks. Sure,it is a valuable submission,but to avoid a whole organization because of a handful of submissions is wack.Especially when the talent level in that organization is so much higher. Its more of a convenient excuse to avoid the top competition and keep winning these small regional tournaments.

Thats the thing. There is so much more to grappling than heelhooks. Sure,it is a valuable submission,but to avoid a whole organization because of a handful of submissions is wack.Especially when the talent level in that organization is so much higher. Its more of a convenient excuse to avoid the top competition and keep winning these small regional tournaments.

Oh dude I don't disagree at all about heel hooks. I don't even do many of them. I just feel like watching or doing nogi seems a little more "neutered" for lack of a better word when they aren't allowed for the advanced grapplers. I'm not even talking about people voiding organizations that don't allow them or not. I know some peole that don't do the IBJJF because they don't like it, and I'm sure there are some people that don't do it because they want to be able to reap and all that stuff.

I was really just trying to say that I wish heel hooks or at least just reapng was allowed for black belts in all nogi tournaments.If only because it would make everybody better.
 
I meant smashed in any ruleset. Denny was hyped to be one of the best Grapplers ever but he clearly looked over matched against Wilson Reis and Rader.Neither of those guys are Elite in IBJJF.In EBI 3 the IBJJF competitors clearly did much better than the 10th Planet guys in an unfamiliar ruleset. Three of the Final 4 of EBI 3 were IBJJF competitors who had success,but would be longshots to win Worlds.It just gets me how these guys claim to be among the best,but have never won the tournaments that the best are in.

I hate to come off as shit talking,but it just seems so unfair to the competitors out there actually putting it on the line against the best.That needs to count for something.

justin rader is elite, He took bronze at adcc 2013, and lost to the semi with cobrinha, if that is not elite, wtf is elite?? and so is wilson reis. the merely fact that they do not do ibjjf gi tournaments doesnt mean they are not elite. you are mixing gi with no gi, in the no gi world, you'll find names that are not common in the ibjjf circuit, no gi has a much wider umbrella, guys with better wrestling (like rader) may hve problems in the the gi, thus not shining in the ibjjf circuit.

The ibjjf no gi circuit is not even that popular, hell most of the top dogs of the gi circuit dont do no gi worlds. So, in no gi terms, the "competition" you are expecting guys like geo or tonnon to have is just no there, the best competition is at adcc, adcc trials, and in terms of prestige, adcc>no gi worlds by a mile.
 
Last edited:
EBI is worth every single dollar spent, by far the most exiting format.
 
justin rader is elite, He took bronze at adcc 2013, and lost to the semi with cobrinha, if that is not elite, wtf is elite?? and so is wilson reis. the merely fact that they do not do ibjjf gi tournaments doesnt mean they are not elite. you are mixing gi with no gi, in the no gi world, you'll find names that are not common in the ibjjf circuit, no gi has a much wider umbrella, guys with better wrestling (like rader) may hve problems in the the gi, thus not shining in the ibjjf circuit.

The ibjjf no gi circuit is not even that popular, hell most of the top dogs of the gi circuit dont do no gi worlds. So, in no gi terms, the "competition" you are expecting guys like geo or tonnon to have is just no there, the best competition is at adcc, adcc trials, and in terms of prestige, adcc>no gi worlds by a mile.
You are of course correct.

JustTheTip seems to constantly denigrate all US-based competitors that do not train or no longer train at a certain scandal-ridden gym, while unabashedly promoting the hell out of those who do train there.
 
Back
Top