Dustin learned a lot from his loss to Khabib

[BangBang]

I always thought Dustin was arguably the best out of him, Ferguson, Gaethje and McGregor.

You could well be right.

I'd love to see Poirier v McGregor 2.

It would give is great idea of how good mCgregor actually is because we know how good Poirier is.

 

[BabyBlue_Bomber]

You act like Poirier wasnt the cause of Hooker getting tired. Both were throwing heat, getting hit, and missing. That takes a lot out of even the best. Even putting all that aside the output from both men were insane.

Aside from the left middle kick, which Porier should have used much more, I didn’t see Porier do too much to sap Hooker’s energy. In fact, Porier didn’t really turn up the offense until Hooker was too tired to keep Porier at range.

Porier did fight a pressure heavy fight and came forward constantly, but a fighter with good conditioning should be able to deal with that type of pressure without getting completely exhausted.

Hooker just lost his discipline in the 2nd round getting into wild exchanges, and I believe he wasted all of his energy in that final flurry that punctuated the end of the round.

I think it’s more similar to Silva/Franklin 2, where Silva had Franklin hurt and gassed himself out trying to get the finish, or Lesnar/Carwin, where Carwin has nothing left after pounding away at Lesnar’s head.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Porier looked good, for sure...

But I believe the result of this fight was more due to Hooker tiring in the third round than it was anything else.

Hooker was giving Porier a lot of problems before he became exhausted.

That’s DP though. He’s sharp and carries good power, poise, focus, physical and mental toughness and well-rounded skills for five rounds. You’re not going to defeat him by having a few good moments or a couple good rounds.

Hooker did really well for a couple rounds but lack of defensive responsibility caught up with him, like it did against Edson and nearly did against Felder. And it’s not like he dominated those rounds. I thought he probably stole the 2nd with that late flurry but it was very close. I like Hooker a lot but he needs a Gaethje-like rethinking on strategy and defense. He needs to use his length better. Right now he uses it purely for offense. He looks for the knee, the leg kicks and the long punches but he doesn’t use it to stay out of range. There was no reason to stay in the pocket so much against DP. When they were at kicking range he was winning and DP’s punches were coming up short, and when they were at punching range his face got pulverized. Think about it like this — if DP landed 3/4 of his strikes against a longer opponent in a fight that didn’t have a ton of clinch, that means he was batting .900 or so in the pocket. Crazy for Hooker to engage in a firefight like that against such a good precision puncher. I can only remember one time that he employed a tactical retreat (think back to the McGregor-Diaz II or Gus vs anyone for how to do that) to reset at kicking distance. Every other time he accepted the challenge to fight his way out of it, trading alternating lefts and rights in a phone booth and almost always getting the worst of it. His entire defense is height and chin right now. And the concern is that he’s already with a good, strategic-minded camp. If he was in a Kevin Lee situation I would say send him to one of the big camps and he’ll be in a title fight within one year.

As for the thesis in the OP, I personally don’t see it that way. This is who DP has been since the MJ loss — very good everywhere, very good cardio and resiliency, and makes good decisions. Against Eddie and Justin he found the right mix of box and brawl against a dangerous bomb thrower. Against Max he trusted his power to come out ahead in a firefight against a volume boxer. Against Pettis he followed the blueprint and grinded him out. He could have lost any of those fights with the wrong gameplan, but trying to stick and move against Max, by fighting at range against Pettis, or by going too cautious or too reckless against Eddie and JG. He got it right again against Hooker, trusting his precision and power to pay dividends in a long fight the way he did against Justin. He could barely walk after both fights but found the chin enough to take over late. So I don’t think he learned anything in the Khabib fight. He always had pretty decent grappling in all phases, which he mostly uses defensively but can call on when appropriate (the Pettis fight; late in the Hooker fight when he knew he could seal it). The problem with Khabib is that he is the ultimate neutralizer of skills. None of the skills mean anything unless you have ultra elite takedown defense.

Anyway, so what’s next?

I am on board with Poirier vs Ferguson. Both guys want to stay right there — Tony so that he can fend off the next wave of contenders and earn his Khabib shot back if Justin loses; Poirier so that he’ll be next in line if anyone other than Khabib becomes champ (that rematch is a really hard sell; as good as DP is, the other 3 in the top 5 have a potential X factor, and we’ve already seen that well-rounded + tough isn’t really the recipe). If either Tony or DP is offered then McGregor fight he needs to take it, but otherwise I think that’s the obvious matchup to determine which perennial contender gets to be the Jon Fitch/Kenny Florian/Chad Mendes of this division. Absent that it’s gotta be another version of this last fight in Oliveira. Felder, Cerrone, Iaquinta, Lee and Barboza are all guys I’ve wanted to see DP fight at one point or another, but they’re all coming off losses.

For Hooker, on the other hand, most of those names will work. Personally I like Hooker vs Lee. Another route for the company is to use Hooker as the gatekeeper for the next round of potential contenders (Islam, Ferreira, Arman, etc.) While he’s too young to write off completely, it isn’t obvious where he goes from here, and he might be better off cutting of another rising young contender at the pass than beating another one of veterans occupying the 6-15 range in the division (Cerrone for example).

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Can't deal with that pressure and wrestling. But Dustin can have more big fights in the UFC and classic wars.. UFC HOF one day IMO..

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Conor beats them both

Maybe. I think it entirely comes down to whether Conor can get them out of there with the early storm or whether they can absorb his shots and still be there around the 7:30 mark, just like it does for Tony and Justin.

Hooker ironically is the one who has the length to potentially give Conor trouble by pieces up his legs without coming into punching range, but the defense Hooker has demonstrated repeatedly at this point) is far too leaky not to get cracked by Conor. He has a great chin so I suppose he could survive, at which point he might well abuse a tired Conor, but I would certainly bet against that. Survive and reach deep waters isn’t really Hooker’s way.

All three matchups are fun though. Tony is the most intriguing in a way, because on one hand he’s the most hittable and would probably (IMO) get knocked out or badly compromised in the first round, but if he survives in anything approaching decent shape into the third round he would positively torture a tired McGregor and it would be amazing to see if Conor would rally or drown.

Poirier is the most well rounded of the three, which makes he vulnerable to an elite opponent with one elite weapon. But if he can wade through the fire the 3rd+ rounds of that matchup would be the best IMO.

Gaethje, I like DP and certainly unlike Tony, really looks to have both the power to blast Conor at any time (which means keeping him honest in the first) and the gas tank + skills to piece Conor up in the middle rounds.

The questions with all of them are (1) the chin and (2) handling the pressure. Not much worry on the 2nd point for JG and Tony IMO, but DP didn’t perform well in either his first Conor fight or in his one big title fight (in fairness those are tests that neither of the other two have faced).

So, does Conor beat them? Sports are about probabilities, not certainties, but I’ll predict:

Hooker? Yes
Tony? Maybe, leaning yes
Poirier? Maybe
Gaethje? Maybe, leaning no

Thoughts? If you had all your money in the world on either Dustin or Tony facing Conor, which would you choose?

 

[wanted226]

Thats cause Hookers not Khabib on the ground

ahmadullah

It's amaluhidala

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I don’t know why everyone is acting like the reason Hooker completed most of the takedowns in the first/middle rounds wasn’t because Poirier kept trying to jump the guillotine.. as soon as he stopped that in the 5th round and listened to his coaches he was stuffing Hooker’s shots. Jumping on the guillotine was unsuccessful cause they were both sweaty and it slipped out multiple times. Partly due to bad decision making by Dustin too.

Well, DP stopped jumping on the neck in the 5th, but Hooker’s legs were also shot and he was wrestling out of desperation and exhaustion.

I agree that the choke attempts were very risky business though. DP was winning the 3rd round prior to the takedown, but if Hooker had advanced position at all and rained down some ground and point en route to finishing the round on top he very well could have stolen this fight. Bisping was correct IMO — try a couple subs to see if Hooker can be easily had (he did seem to be fatigued mentally) but then quickly switch to getting up.

Either way, I think it’s mistake to read too much into this either way. Hooker is not an elite wrestler, and by the time they were grappling Hooker was really tired. Maybe the first takedown caught DP by surprise, but he should not have been on his back again after that.

I think it goes without saying that KN likely dominates him again, and I would even worry about DP against someone like Islam or Gillespie (I would predict Lee to win the first 1-2 rounds before getting TKO’d).

 

[wanted226]

Maybe. I think it entirely comes down to whether Conor can get them out of there with the early storm or whether they can absorb his shots and still be there around the 7:30 mark, just like it does for Tony and Justin.

Hooker ironically is the one who has the length to potentially give Conor trouble by pieces up his legs without coming into punching range, but the defense Hooker has demonstrated repeatedly at this point) is far too leaky not to get cracked by Conor. He has a great chin so I suppose he could survive, at which point he might well abuse a tired Conor, but I would certainly bet against that. Survive and reach deep waters isn’t really Hooker’s way.

All three matchups are fun though. Tony is the most intriguing in a way, because on one hand he’s the most hittable and would probably (IMO) get knocked out or badly compromised in the first round, but if he survives in anything approaching decent shape into the third round he would positively torture a tired McGregor and it would be amazing to see if Conor would rally or drown.

Poirier is the most well rounded of the three, which makes he vulnerable to an elite opponent with one elite weapon. But if he can wade through the fire the 3rd+ rounds of that matchup would be the best IMO.

Gaethje, I like DP and certainly unlike Tony, really looks to have both the power to blast Conor at any time (which means keeping him honest in the first) and the gas tank + skills to piece Conor up in the middle rounds.

The questions with all of them are (1) the chin and (2) handling the pressure. Not much worry on the 2nd point for JG and Tony IMO, but DP didn’t perform well in either his first Conor fight or in his one big title fight (in fairness those are tests that neither of the other two have faced).

So, does Conor beat them? Sports are about probabilities, not certainties, but I’ll predict:

Hooker? Yes
Tony? Maybe, leaning yes
Poirier? Maybe
Gaethje? Maybe, leaning no

Thoughts? If you had all your money in the world on either Dustin or Tony facing Conor, which would you choose?

Conor would beat them broke bums like a redheaded stepson regardless!!
he doesn't av 25min in him like the others, but when he win it's going <10min anyway

 

[JSN]

Maybe. I think it entirely comes down to whether Conor can get them out of there with the early storm or whether they can absorb his shots and still be there around the 7:30 mark, just like it does for Tony and Justin.

Hooker ironically is the one who has the length to potentially give Conor trouble by pieces up his legs without coming into punching range, but the defense Hooker has demonstrated repeatedly at this point) is far too leaky not to get cracked by Conor. He has a great chin so I suppose he could survive, at which point he might well abuse a tired Conor, but I would certainly bet against that. Survive and reach deep waters isn’t really Hooker’s way.

All three matchups are fun though. Tony is the most intriguing in a way, because on one hand he’s the most hittable and would probably (IMO) get knocked out or badly compromised in the first round, but if he survives in anything approaching decent shape into the third round he would positively torture a tired McGregor and it would be amazing to see if Conor would rally or drown.

Poirier is the most well rounded of the three, which makes he vulnerable to an elite opponent with one elite weapon. But if he can wade through the fire the 3rd+ rounds of that matchup would be the best IMO.

Gaethje, I like DP and certainly unlike Tony, really looks to have both the power to blast Conor at any time (which means keeping him honest in the first) and the gas tank + skills to piece Conor up in the middle rounds.

The questions with all of them are (1) the chin and (2) handling the pressure. Not much worry on the 2nd point for JG and Tony IMO, but DP didn’t perform well in either his first Conor fight or in his one big title fight (in fairness those are tests that neither of the other two have faced).

So, does Conor beat them? Sports are about probabilities, not certainties, but I’ll predict:

Hooker? Yes
Tony? Maybe, leaning yes
Poirier? Maybe
Gaethje? Maybe, leaning no

Thoughts? If you had all your money in the world on either Dustin or Tony facing Conor, which would you choose?

I don't necessarily think that weathering the early storm means either of these guys beat Conor. Nate is in some ways a pretty good analog to Hooker and Nate was gassing himself in the rematch from output and punishment and Conor won the fourth on every judge's scorecard.

Both Poirier and Hooker are extremely good fighters and for sure Dustin s better than when Conor curbstomped him @ FW years ago, but I think that against other strikers one cannot assume he will gas if he doesn't put someone away early.

Hell Hooker has been gassing a half a round earlier than Conor throwing pitter patter so it's not like he in particular would be a lock if that fight goes late.

 

[xP]

Dustin has always had BJJ. Not sure what you mean.

He was still diving for guillotines and giving Hooker top position every time he went for a TD, lol.

 

[Feardoesnotexistinmydojo]

View attachment 778794
It really seemed like Dustin was truly dangerous anywhere on the ground tonight and didn’t ever feel like he was in any sort of danger no matter the position he was in. It felt like had they both not been bloodied he’d have Submitted Hooker from some of those positions. I hope he continues to get better at it and becomes a monster everywhere especially if Khabib retires after the Gaethje fight since he’s most likely fighting for the title at that point.

You can not compare Hooker and Khabib on the ground. It’s like having a dunk contest between MJ and Steve Nash

 

[GrantB13]

Like willing to go to his back at a moments notice, and tire himself out trying for submissions he can’t finish?

Can you tell the class who won again?

 

[JSN]

Well, DP stopped jumping on the neck in the 5th, but Hooker’s legs were also shot and he was wrestling out of desperation and exhaustion.

I agree that the choke attempts were very risky business though. DP was winning the 3rd round prior to the takedown, but if Hooker had advanced position at all and rained down some ground and point en route to finishing the round on top he very well could have stolen this fight. Bisping was correct IMO — try a couple subs to see if Hooker can be easily had (he did seem to be fatigued mentally) but then quickly switch to getting up.

Either way, I think it’s mistake to read too much into this either way. Hooker is not an elite wrestler, and by the time they were grappling Hooker was really tired. Maybe the first takedown caught DP by surprise, but he should not have been on his back again after that.

I think it goes without saying that KN likely dominates him again, and I would even worry about DP against someone like Islam or Gillespie (I would predict Lee to win the first 1-2 rounds before getting TKO’d).

lol hooker caught DP by surprise.

 

[Leoooo]

I noticed he tried some of Khabibs tricks. However, its not specific to him, a lot of fighters that haven't fought Khabib have learnt from him. Didn't Overeem use some of Khabibs posituoning last fight ?

It’s not like it’s Khabib’s tricks. He didn’t invent anything. Khabib is a master student of the game and has incredible basics and technique.
But he’s not revolutionary in any way. He does nothing unorthodox and never takes chances or uses fancy or advanced techniques, like for example someone like Ferguson.

 

[Peli]

He showed that he learned some ideas from Khabib on how to offensively grapple.

But still defensively suspect - taken down by taller guy that isn’t a wrestler, jumping for guillotines late in a fight against bloody/sweaty opponent. Still some glaring defensive holes but he has some ideas on what Khabib did to him and is trying to implement at least.

I was amazed he let hooker complete 4 out of 9 take downs

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

I was amazed he let hooker complete 4 out of 9 take downs

He instinctively goes for guillotine defense minister when opponents shoot on instinct, seems like it’s in his “fight DNA.”

When he focused on working for under hooks or just scrambling the second he hit taken down he got away fine. But when going for subs would give up position or get stuck for long periods.

 

[pick999]

Khabib revolutionized MMA grappling and GNP.

Fedor did

 

[rjmbrd]

Dustin is a "competent at best" wrestler and an average grappler.

He got taken down repeatedly by a kickboxer last night and didn't come remotely close to securing a submission.

Dustin is a fine fighter and most definitely entertaining to watch, but people always take these things out of context. He was out classed by Khabib who's stretched out beatings time and again against guys like Barboza and Raging Al to decisions.

 

[GabeLincoln]

Would rather him stop fighting bums and actually prove it tbh. Great fighter but he didn’t fight Gaethje when he had the chance and now he’s pissy and upset that he’s not getting the Khabib fight.

Bums? Dustin, Khabib, alvarez, Cerrone, Diaz,Mayweather, aldo, Holloway bums lol

 

[rjmbrd]

He instinctively goes for guillotine defense minister when opponents shoot on instinct, seems like it’s in his “fight DNA.”

When he focused on working for under hooks or just scrambling the second he hit taken down he got away fine. But when going for subs would give up position or get stuck for long periods.

Lots of guys were the best submission grapplers on the way up in the regional scene, Dustin included. The truth is he's a generalist who isn't special at any one discipline, but competent at all of them.

Dustin suffers from years of pulling off a guillotine as needed against guys far below his pay grade. It doesn't work in the big league and he's still fundamentally the same grappler that Korean Zombie tapped out years back.

Its pretty wild to see but he was happy to enter 50/50 exchanges with Hooker and just hope he didn't get knocked out first. His fight IQ is there but he's not committed to it.