Duran Leonard I

Duran was still Duran when they fought a couple of months later too.

Unfortunately for Duran. Leonard has said that he demanded the immediate rematch clause because he knew he may lose the first fight, but also knew that Duran would party and get out of shape after the victory--and who won the last fight is what most people would remember.
 
It was very close but not that close, not by a round and not by 2, and dont listen to the scoring nazis they just like arguing
 
It was very close but not that close, not by a round and not by 2, and dont listen to the scoring nazis they just like arguing

So in other words, only listen to your score and ignore all the scores anyone else comes up with in what everyone agrees was a close fight? Sounds reasonable.
 
I feel inspired to watch this again.
 
also, it surprised me to hear but I've read the second one was close at the end too. And yes, Mike Trainer or someone pushed for the quick rematch because duran had gone up to 230, a bit devious yes but as a pro, Duran had no business getting that fat, no fighter does really. I've read ray himself went up 10 pounds between fights and that was about it. thats a pro.
 
truthfully, scoring is largely subjective, some judges will favor the aggressor just on GP but not even consider the fact that they weren't landing much and taking plenty, that's one thing which created a lot of ali's "gift" decisions drama. Some people still ridiculously claim frazier won the second fight and point out the aggressiveness, totally forgetting that he didn't really do that much. It gets tricky, and then lets not even forget the possibility of underhanded unfair stuff going on.
 
So I went back and watched this fight in its entirety for the first time in a good 7 or 8 years, scoring along as I watched, backing up the video and watching the close exchanges a couple of times and for anyone saying it "wasn't that close" is trying to start an argument. I honestly think thats the closest fight I've ever watched.

Anyway, this is how I had it and at least 4 or 5 rounds had me saying, "Wow, that is a really hard round to score."

round/Leonard/duran

1. 9-10
2.9-10
3.9-10
4.10-9
5.10-9
6.10-9
7.9-10
8.10-9
9.9-10
10. 9-10
11.10-9
12.10-9
13.10-9
14.10-9
15.10-9

144-141 Leonard

In those late rounds, Duran was being aggressive and some people like that, some people score fights based on that. I thought that while it was "Duran's type of fight" that doesn't mean he was actually winning it.

That said, I don't stand by that score at all. Like I said, I am not sure I've ever watched a closer fight.
 
Unfortunately for Duran. Leonard has said that he demanded the immediate rematch clause because he knew he may lose the first fight, but also knew that Duran would party and get out of shape after the victory--and who won the last fight is what most people would remember.

this excuse doesn't hold water either BTW. People make a lot of excuses for Duran. If he got out of shape between those two fights, thats his problem. His history doesn't really support that being a true story though seeing as he pretty much always fought a few times a year. The Leonard fights were no different.
 
So in other words, only listen to your score and ignore all the scores anyone else comes up with in what everyone agrees was a close fight? Sounds reasonable.

What I meant is there are people on this board that have a history of siding with the wrong side of a universally obvious bad decision just because they love arguing
 
So I went back and watched this fight in its entirety for the first time in a good 7 or 8 years, scoring along as I watched, backing up the video and watching the close exchanges a couple of times and for anyone saying it "wasn't that close" is trying to start an argument. I honestly think thats the closest fight I've ever watched.

Anyway, this is how I had it and at least 4 or 5 rounds had me saying, "Wow, that is a really hard round to score."

round/Leonard/duran

1. 9-10
2.9-10
3.9-10
4.10-9
5.10-9
6.10-9
7.9-10
8.10-9
9.9-10
10. 9-10
11.10-9
12.10-9
13.10-9
14.10-9
15.10-9

144-141 Leonard

In those late rounds, Duran was being aggressive and some people like that, some people score fights based on that. I thought that while it was "Duran's type of fight" that doesn't mean he was actually winning it.

That said, I don't stand by that score at all. Like I said, I am not sure I've ever watched a closer fight.


Cecil Peoples everybody !
 
What I meant is there are people on this board that have a history of siding with the wrong side of a universally obvious bad decision just because they love arguing

unfortunate but obvious.


oh, and i had it for Duran, close but clear.
 
i guess the thing that for me sticks out about this fight, and it shouldnt affect a persons scorecard but it could, is how roberto was so confident and ray came across as a bit out of his depth, he also was hurt by the reaction of the crowd, which surprised him being that montreal was the town he won the gold in, remember how he held his gloves out before the fight like "what is this' and then after the fight, you could see the hurt on his face as duran was announced the winner, it was like he knew it all along. he lost the mental battle, had he been more sure of himself he wouldn't have had to change strategies in the 13 round.
 
i guess the thing that for me sticks out about this fight, and it shouldnt affect a persons scorecard but it could, is how roberto was so confident and ray came across as a bit out of his depth, he also was hurt by the reaction of the crowd, which surprised him being that montreal was the town he won the gold in, remember how he held his gloves out before the fight like "what is this' and then after the fight, you could see the hurt on his face as duran was announced the winner, it was like he knew it all along. he lost the mental battle, had he been more sure of himself he wouldn't have had to change strategies in the 13 round.

I think so too. Duran was getting smacked around pretty good in the final round but he was showboating at the same time.

I was just doing some reading up on that fight and most people actually thought Leonard had won that fight.
 
The scorecards were a joke because the boxing world wanted the olympic golden boy to win. One card had 10 even rounds lol. There are rounds genuinely impossible to score, than there's also wanting to give Ray every chance to win. Even when they read the scorecards they did NOT read it as a unanimous decision in favor of Duran, even though it WAS a unanimous decision for Duran. Just poor form.

Regardless, given the quality of the class of boxing in there, there wasn't much domination of rounds, hence people will be generous to the fighters they like when scoring.

My non-bias expert eye is in line with general consensus, competitive fight, but clear win for Duran.
 
No matter who you think won this fight it is an amazing fight that is worth watching again.

I'm convinced there's been no better display of boxing, skill-wise, since.

Yes, there's been plenty more exciting fights, but in that fight you see all the nuances. So rare for either fighter to land a clean jab, it was pretty much used to set up combinations. The feints, slips, riding punches... wicked display of all the finer points of great boxing. You see how minute the margin of error was; how few windows/openings to land clean punches there were, and how those rare split second opportunities were utilized.

Unmatched since.
 
I'm convinced there's been no better display of boxing, skill-wise, since.

Yes, there's been plenty more exciting fights, but in that fight you see all the nuances. So rare for either fighter to land a clean jab, it was pretty much used to set up combinations. The feints, slips, riding punches... wicked display of all the finer points of great boxing. You see how minute the margin of error was; how few windows/openings to land clean punches there were, and how those rare split second opportunities were utilized.

Unmatched since.

true, but you also had 2 of the greatest fighters in history, in their primes, fighting each other in shape and prepared. how often has THAT happened since with that caliber of fighters? here you had the right circumstances, and the fighters actually cooperated and delivered. it really was a special era.
 
true, but you also had 2 of the greatest fighters in history, in their primes, fighting each other in shape and prepared. how often has THAT happened since with that caliber of fighters?

Sure, very rare. Obviously many things do have to align. You can see the great physical shape both were in to go 15 rounds like that. Though I don't think Duran was in his prime. Where I often run into disagreement with others, is that at 147 I wholeheartedly believe Leonard was the better puncher/harder hitter, whereas pound for pound, Duran at 135 I think was as good a puncher as Leonard was at 147 if not better.

For that reson, I can't consider Duran to be prime for that fight. Near prime. Some may scoff, but back then a few pounds mattered... you take a look at what happened to guys like Gomez when he moved up to fight Sanchez, or Arguello when he moved up to fight Pryor. Duran was not a big lightweight. Hearns for example was a huge welter with spindly legs who looking at him you know can't stay at that weight forever. Duran made lightweight for like ~7 years and was not a big lightweight, just a picture perfect lightweight.

It's extraordinarily rare in boxing history that a guy can move up in weight and beat someone who is arguably top 5ish in the weight class of that history. One of the all-time great achievements in boxing history in my opinion was someone moving up in weight to defeat a fighter the caliber of Leonard.
 
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