Dumb question regarding military guys like Stann and Kennedy

We mostly did combatives. I only made it to level 1, which was a bunch of rolling and some basic holds. Oh and shrimping lots of shrimping.

YOu can say that again, and in a sawdust pit at that. Gets plenty of shit in your pants as we used to start off every session with a few minutes of shrimping around the pit.

Uniforms are tough, so its akin to Gi BJJ. We always focused more on chokes than other submissions and never messed around with any kind of leglocks, heel hooks, toe holds, etc so those have always been completely foreign to me to see in fights.
 
All they tought me in army was gft which is bjj and wrestling. So no, military personnel will get marked by low level mma fighter
 
From what I know from my military friends "hand to hand" combat is not really hand to hand. Its a last resort and generally involves their combat knives. So it's more counter stab and slice than it is counter uppercut and hook.
 
I would think that Kennedy would know more of the secret military holds then Stann would. Since Kennedy was a special forces Ranger while Stann was more of a platoon leader.

Tim knows the dim mak, green beret style.
 
Back in 2010, I was a certified level 2 Modern Army Combatives Program instructor in the USAF (We didn't have our own program so we used the Army's).

My unit brought in a group of former Navy SEAL cadre for 2 week training programs. Those guys made us drill vehicle dismount, reload drills, and tons of super basic squad maneuvers hundreds of times every day before we ever touched field ops.

I was teaching my combatives class after training one day and invited the cadre, mostly just to see how badly they would whoop our asses. Now, although they were all 10+ year vets, they had been separated anywhere from 2-10 years. The only two that came were the two youngest, and their technique was absolute garbage. Not that I'm noteworthy at all, but they had clearly never spent a dedicated amount of time training bjj or striking for competition. They were, however, absurdly strong and fast, and had their way with us. Anytime you would open up they would just brute force through. I'm sure a high purple or better would handle them, but as someone who was, at best, a low blue, I could barely keep or retain guard. The other instructor, who's only experience was getting instructor certified couldn't do anything.

The next day my fellow instructor jokingly called out the cadre leader, 'doc'. For record, Doc was probably im his 50s, a 20+ year vet, and total badass. There was some shit talking, then my buddy dove into a clinch, and went for a seatbelt trip.

Well, you know how when you grapple with someone, you generally don't strike? Apparently Doc didn't follow that line of thinking because as soon as he started to tip over he blasted my buddy in the face with the back of his elbow or something, and they landed in a heap. Doc nailed him with a few good shots before my buddy curled up and called mercy and the rest of us watched in shock.

Later I was talking with Doc about it, and he was saying they used a sort of 'block' method, forearms up infront of you making a block or window shape right in front of you. You use your forearms to deflect whatever you can and rely on hittimg hard and fast with elbows or whatever you can cleanly. This is, of course, assuming you don't have access to a weapon.

From an MMA perspective it seemed completely useless, but, figuring that most spec ops cqc would occur in tight spaces with all sorts of variable parameters and makeshit weapons, it actually seems like a legit concept. It's relatively simple to train, and relies on the operator being fast and strong, which they generally are.

That was also probably 20 yeara ago, so I can't speak for how they train now, but my run in with SEALS confirmed 2 things for me. 1) They would get destroyed in an MMA match by most pros 2) They are complete badass, A type personalities who would fuck up most people simply through being in top shape and having no reservations about rearranging your face at the drop of a hat.
 
according to steven seagal he would kill every ufc fighter in a fight if there were no rules .... but it has to be in the desert, where there is no one watching
He meant during dessert
 
Basic basic stuff with the "anything to win" technique thrown in...groin, throat, eye gouge. But more than the physical techniques, they really try to ingrain the "the will to survive" mentality. More than the physical, I think the military/law enforcement focuses on the do not quit mentality... Maybe not enough time to learn karate, but sure as hell can learn crazy in a short amount of time.

Wasnt there some UFC special made awhile ago where Forrest and a couple other fighters do some shit with the military and they say it was tough?
 
If the competition was blind patriotism the army would win every time
 
Like others have said, their knowledge of martial arts is very basic. The last thing you want to do in mortal combat is to end up in a one on one fistfight, anytime the fight is fair, you made a mistake. I heard one navy seal, can't remember his name, but he said "to me martial arts is sneaking into your room late at night in slitting your throat while you sleep". You can't compare that mindset and needs with the sport of MMA.
 
Army Combatives training is hot garbage. Anybody with even a little BJJ and Muay Thai training could wreck a soldier who has only been trained in Army Combatives.
 
Doesn't Stann outrank Kennedy? I remember something where Kennedy referred to Stann as an officer, and that he was a leader... Anyone know about this stuff?
 
Doesn't Stann outrank Kennedy? I remember something where Kennedy referred to Stann as an officer, and that he was a leader... Anyone know about this stuff?

Stann was a Captain in the Marines, which is an Officer. Kennedy was a Sergeant First Class in the Army which is enlisted.

Officers outrank enlisted.
 
Would they have knowledge of holds or techniques from training in the military that would see them defeat better MMA fighters if the UFC really was no holds barred?
No
 
Jocko Willink offers his thoughts as a SEAL on BJJ and martial arts training, he's a good listen on podcasts or other interviews.

Seconded, I like his stuff.
 
Not really. Hand to hand in the military is very basic and meant to be a last resort. They want it to be simple enough to retain without the continuous repetition that most martial arts training uses. There is some advanced hand to hand in the special operations units that is trained more specifically. The thing that gives it that deadly moniker is due to it being more rudimentary to dispatch people quickly. Groin and throat strikes, etc. are things already outlawed by the rules.

Tier one units are rumored to have even more focused training, but I don't know the specifics. Most military members that are dedicated to advanced training do so on their own accord, even within the units. Armed combat training, on the other hand, can be very advanced depending on your function.
Tim applies to the second part of your post.. Fact.
 
The soldiers and marines who go deep into MAC(modern army combatives) and MCMAP(marine corps martial arts program) learn some good stuff but it is not any better than what a pro MMA fighter learns
 
I have two siblings in the military, one a combat engineer in the Army, the other an MP in the Airforce. The Army brother learned just a few BJJ moves, and the MP learned mostly restraining holds. The Army brother explained that you have to actually elect to take "combat initiative" courses. I think he said there are five levels of hand-to-hand combat courses and most soldiers only take one or two levels. He said the only guys going up to level five are Green Berets and Rangers, and even then most only go to level three or four. In combat, guns reign supreme. Hell, rangers and GBs will put a knife through the base of your skull before they'd ever slap on a RNC.
There's 4 levels of combative with the last level being mostly administrative. Everyone does combatives during PT only a few actually go to the school and get certified level one and so on. If you get lucky you get a guy in your unit who is certified at level 2 or 3 he can't teach the level below at unit level. I had a level 3 in my unit who could certify level 2.
 
if military trained hand to hand combat nearly as much as mma fighters did i'd ask wtf are they fucking training for? if you want to learn how to fight join a gym, not the military. now, if you want to learn how to kill....
 
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