Ducking punches and bending at the waist

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by JustOnce, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. JustOnce

    JustOnce Always learning

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    Isn't it supposed to be NOT bending at the waist but bending the knees so that you don't run into uppercuts?

    Why is that everyone from the Mayweather to everyone else do exactly that and bend at the waist often to dodge punches
     
  2. Reyesnuthugr

    Reyesnuthugr Dominick Reyes Belt

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    It also ruins the discs in your lower back. Bad form = perpetually sprained-feeling stiff un-athletic back. It also leaves you off-balance and unable to fire back. Also you can get injured easily if the opponent presses down on you as you try to recover-- you are essentially trying to fight another guy's weight using your lower back while off balance.

    You can bend a slight bit at the waist (some is expected/the less the better) when ducking but it should be primarily done by the knees/hips for both correct form/function and health reasons.

    People that bend using their waist are just copying what they think they've observed others doing (maybe they have, if the other person is wrong, too). They don't know better, and their coaches may not either. A lot of boxing technical form has gotten worse (generally) in modern times. People are trying to use raw athleticism instead of proper, efficient technique and it CAN work for a short time, mostly at levels below the top level, but it would work much, much better (and they would get a lot less hit/hurt) to use athleticism in at least conjunction with correct technique, rather than as a substitute.

    It's mostly Americans who are doing this, it will backfire quicker and more measurably than they could imagine by shorting their career potential and well being.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  3. zapataxiv

    zapataxiv Black Belt

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    what reyes said pus to add in a happygilmore quote "its all in the hips"

    when it looks as simple as somebody bending at the waist like a may weather in reality it is a more complex maneuver that originates in the hips and then throws in some other mechanics, to be about as unspecific as possible.
    to be more specific usually what using the hips means is shifting the weight predominately to a hip, doing that triggers a movement of the rest of the body because it all connected (duh professor boring get to the point). bending at the hip requires you to fold your hip and not bend at the knees, and shifting the weight to author side loads up punches sets up proper pivots etc... the bend at the knees is mostly for level changes but that is really only to accentuate the hip fold.

    so really the bending at the waist and knees is really bad if that is the only way you know how to use your body, then yea your technique is wrong at best and is gonna get you hurt sooner or later.
     
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  4. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Forum Moderator

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    I don't know if we're referring to the same thing.... but I hate when boxers bend their torso and do like a pendulum swing to avoid shots. Where they're exposing the back of their head essentially.... leaving their opponent with nothing to do in return.

    In Ward v Kessler Andre kept doing that. Kessler would punch and hit the top or back of his head and then get warned.
     
  5. 10000 Days

    10000 Days Green Belt

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    When you bend with your waist, you'll be looking down on the floor, therefore you wont see them punches coming. And you won't be able to counterpunch.

    Plus it's bad for your lower back.
     
  6. JustOnce

    JustOnce Always learning

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    so it's okay to bend at hip but not a waist? your head tilts down same anyways in both ways?

    so top boxers does not bend at the waist but at the hips? It does look like they do bend at the waist and the hip from time to time
     
  7. JustOnce

    JustOnce Always learning

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    so keeping the straight back? but how many boxers really keep their back straight when dodging shots
     
  8. JustOnce

    JustOnce Always learning

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    isn't that called weaving like Mike Tyson?
     
  9. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Forum Moderator

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    Tyson did it differently.
    If you re-watch Ward/Kessler you'll see this thing he does where it's impossible for Kessler to even do anything... because any punch he would land would be on the top or back of the head.
     
  10. JustOnce

    JustOnce Always learning

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    I see.. I don't know if any boxers never bend at the waist though, maybe they are supposed to not to, but don't they do it anyways, from Mayweather to....Pacquiao
     
  11. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Forum Moderator

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    I can think of Pacquiao doing this kind of bending-pendulum swing thingy.
    It should be illegal because it allows you to time your offense while you're in a position where your opponent can't do anything.
     
  12. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja Black Belt

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    This in a nutshell. You lose sight of your opponent, and lose the opportunity to counter, much of the time when your opponent is over extended. Fighters do it but it's not how you are taught. No one does it when they're hitting the pads but then nothing hurtful is coming back, so it's easy to keep good technique

    I agree it's not good for your lower back but as a boxer you WILL have a strong core anyways
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  13. JustOnce

    JustOnce Always learning

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    even mayweather does it, i think
     
  14. wilddeuces

    wilddeuces Banned Banned

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    You mean like this?

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Mocesting The Delapitated

    Mocesting The Delapitated Jun Jun Jun Forum Moderator

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    Well said.

    Pirog did this a bit, may have contributed to has back injury that forced him to retire.

    Shame...he was unique and had so much potential.
     
  16. Fzubek

    Fzubek Brown Belt

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    Dont try too act like there is some subtle science going on.. defensive fighters bend at the waist all the time, especially after they slip one or two by going down to the same side.. they always finish bent at the waist and initiate a clinch.
     
  17. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Forum Moderator

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    I stand corrected.
    Yup... like that.
     
  18. Reyesnuthugr

    Reyesnuthugr Dominick Reyes Belt

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    You can/should bend where your hips are (some, there is an intelligent limit), which is different than using the lower back to bend. Mostly it should be the knees, though.

    Tyson and the other guys taught by Cus DID bend at the back a lot for the peek-a-boo style. Also their backs (including Tyson's) were notoriously way out of wack and were constantly needing readjustments (between rounds, even) and trying all sorts of things to help their constant back pain. It worked, but at a price.

    There is a science to all boxing movement. When ducking/weaving--


    1. Mostly use your knees (level change) so you don't have to pitch forward and get out of position/off-balance.

    2. Somewhat use your hips if you want/need. Shouldn't be pitched forward approaching 45º down or more.

    3. Your back should be bent only slightly forward (still relatively straight) or not at all. That's the range. No one's back is designed to do spring back up quickly from leaning forward, esp. during combat, regardless of the strength of the muscles built around it.


    This is not only for health, but for best technique/results in the ring.

    ----

    As for bending sideways, some limited range of that is useful and expected with proper movement along with punching. Ducking (which means forward in this case) with the lower back is a really bad idea. Also you shouldn't be leaning forward too much when you do. It's not even a long term thing, bad problems will manifest very quickly. You can't spring up, return to basic fighting stance/posture as fast to punch, either, so you miss opportunities and can get bullied or even injured during that time
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  19. Queen B

    Queen B Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    The difference is Floyd has a side stance so he cant get hit. When you do that its a very cheesy tactic which imo is equivalent to holding, because neither you nor your opponent can hit.

    I heard it used to be illegal to bend at waist
     
  20. nac386

    nac386 Gold Belt

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    Bradley does that a bit, especially in his fights with Pacquiao.

    Also, I hated how Broner would turn his head against Maidana to make Maidana hit him in the back of the head, then look at the ref to complain. The ref actually handled it well though and basically told him to stop blocking punches with the back of his head.
     
    MC Paul Barman and Reyesnuthugr like this.

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