Dropping the hand when throwing a high kick

Bringing this topic off page 3 because I asked my sensei why we don't do this tonight, and he told me.

Apparently if you're moving your hand down hard enough to help you complete the motion, you're actually doing something that's bad for your back. He said 40 year old guys can't kick like that anymore.

Also, keeping your hands still will keep your muscles better connected.

It would make sense, we do see MMA fighters retiring around that age.

I'm thinking that competitive MMA fighters who are in a ring/cage with an opponent wearing 4oz gloves throwing punches/elbows/knees/TD's etc........ have a bit more to be concerned with in terms of physical damage than whether or not the swinging arm could be bad for their back and keep them out of the ring in there 40's......?:icon_neut

I am guessing there much more likely to be damaged by the guy punching, kicking, elbowing them, than they are by not ensuring proper muscle ailignment on their kicks to "take it easy" on their lower back:rolleyes:

If that is the "major" concern, yoga is probably a more suitable option than kickboxing or MMA.
 
I couldn't comment on the feasibility of kicking with the hands up, but the idea that throwing the hand in the opposite direction will reduce power is flawed.

A reasonably smart guy called Isaac Newton worked out that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

So if you apply force in one direction to the end of a lever (your hand on the end of your arm) attached to a fixed point (your standing leg) the other end of the lever (your foot at the end of your kicking leg) will move in the opposite direction.

Think of your arm and leg as being two sides of a see saw (I believe americans call them teeter-totters?). You can propel yourself upwards on your own, but you'll move faster if someone's applying a downward force at the other end.

Physics is never quite so neat and tidy when applied to human bodies but the principle is sound.
 
I used to think keeping the hands up was the way

but then I learned proper kick technique... and it's not.
 
I'm thinking that competitive MMA fighters who are in a ring/cage with an opponent wearing 4oz gloves throwing punches/elbows/knees/TD's etc........ have a bit more to be concerned with in terms of physical damage than whether or not the swinging arm could be bad for their back and keep them out of the ring in there 40's......?:icon_neut

I am guessing there much more likely to be damaged by the guy punching, kicking, elbowing them, than they are by not ensuring proper muscle ailignment on their kicks to "take it easy" on their lower back:rolleyes:

If that is the "major" concern, yoga is probably a more suitable option than kickboxing or MMA.

Wow, great logic. Do things the easy way because you think it'll help you not get punched in the face, and still end up retiring because you've hurt yourself over time.
 
Wow, great logic. Do things the easy way because you think it'll help you not get punched in the face, and still end up retiring because you've hurt yourself over time.

Skipping rope and running is bad for the knees and lower back. Any snapping action in your punch is bad for you joints. Years of kicking hard stuff will eventually result into bone problems. Getting your brain rocked often will create major problems. Fighting is really not the best sport for long term health.

choosing to do any full contact martial art for a certain amount of years you know you WILL suffer long term problems. But during the fight I think like Sullivan, I dont care about back pains in 10-20 years from now, I worry about my opponent cracking my skull open right now!

As for the the technique itself. When I'm in my opponent kicking range I throw my arm down, when I'm in his punching range i keep it up.
 
lmao. Someone come to my gym and tell the multiple lumpinee champions that they've been kicking wrong for the last 30 yrs+. lol what a joke.
 
Your arms should counter balance your leg extension and guard it during the kick. For instance, a right side kick should be balanced/guarded by your right hand. Your hands should move forward with a front kick, etc.
 
If you move your arms and torso in sync with your kick, i don't see why this is a problem...at all.

It's the idiots that telegraph it by making spazz hand movements before kicking or change their stance or movement before the kick who get KOed.

EDIT: That being said, you should always bring your one hand hand back up to your guard as soon as you can after kicking.
 
just thought id bump this for the lulz since it still seems to be relevant...
 
Has any one ever seen someone actually suffer a simultaneous counter kick to a right leg roundhouse in mma that would have been soaked by the initiator of the exchange keeping his left hand up?
 
Has any one ever seen someone actually suffer a simultaneous counter kick to a right leg roundhouse in mma that would have been soaked by the initiator of the exchange keeping his left hand up?

what do you mean soaked?

either way, ill shamelessly drop my sparring vid here, as it pertains exactly to what youre talking about. within the first 15 seconds, what youre talking about happens. sure, my technique was lazy but he timed it perfectly.

if you notice, he swings his arm also so i could have done the same thing to him (had i possessed the timing and skill...which i obviously don't lol). although, later in the vid, he does switch to swinging the arm out, instead of down when he turns up the intensity:



and yeah, its not a right kick like you said but the same thing applies.
 
what do you mean soaked?

either way, ill shamelessly drop my sparring vid here, as it pertains exactly to what youre talking about. within the first 15 seconds, what youre talking about happens. sure, my technique was lazy but he timed it perfectly.

if you notice, he swings his arm also so i could have done the same thing to him (had i possessed the timing and skill...which i obviously don't lol). although, later in the vid, he does switch to swinging the arm out, instead of down when he turns up the intensity:



and yeah, its not a right kick like you said but the same thing applies.


Awesome video. I'm going to live vicariously through you for a minute.

Almost everyone drops the right hand when they throw the right kick, so if your opponent can counter with the left kick, it is going to be open. That's an odd sort of counter because it requires you actually be sweet.

Lots of people keep the left hand up on the right kick. Keeping that hand up is just harped on constantly by some instructors. That said, the occurrence of a simultaneous right kick to the head by an opponent who would also have to either be faster than you or performing some sort of TKD switch to the side to pull it off.

People always talk about it. I just haven't seen it much when people are moving fast.

By soak I just mean eating a hit on your arm.
 
Awesome video. I'm going to live vicariously through you for a minute.

Almost everyone drops the right hand when they throw the right kick, so if your opponent can counter with the left kick, it is going to be open. That's an odd sort of counter because it requires you actually be sweet.

Lots of people keep the left hand up on the right kick. Keeping that hand up is just harped on constantly by some instructors. That said, the occurrence of a simultaneous right kick to the head by an opponent who would also have to either be faster than you or performing some sort of TKD switch to the side to pull it off.

People always talk about it. I just haven't seen it much when people are moving fast.

By soak I just mean eating a hit on your arm.

well, the dude is about 13 years younger than me with almost 60 pro fights living in Thailand training Muay Thai full time so he's pretty sweet lol.

re-watching the vid, i noticed he didnt really throw too many right kicks at me but a shitload of lead leg left ones. ive been trying to pick up nuances from his style because i like to throw lead leg kicks also.

regardless, no matter how lazy i was with that kick, im pretty sure he was gonna land that head kick on me at the beginning. the skill gap was just too great there.

the left hand up on the right kick is easy...its keeping both hands up like some guys were advocating here back in 2010 that is strange. ive seen Tyrone Spong do it (must be a dutch thing) where he shells up with both arms and throws but its only been low kicks. how would you do that with a high kick and have decent power???
 
well, the dude is about 13 years younger than me with almost 60 pro fights living in Thailand training Muay Thai full time so he's pretty sweet lol.

re-watching the vid, i noticed he didnt really throw too many right kicks at me but a shitload of lead leg left ones. ive been trying to pick up nuances from his style because i like to throw lead leg kicks also.

regardless, no matter how lazy i was with that kick, im pretty sure he was gonna land that head kick on me at the beginning. the skill gap was just too great there.

the left hand up on the right kick is easy...its keeping both hands up like some guys were advocating here back in 2010 that is strange. ive seen Tyrone Spong do it (must be a dutch thing) where he shells up with both arms and throws but its only been low kicks. how would you do that with a high kick and have decent power???

I don't know about Thai style, but for a TKD snap kick, you aren't going to turn past center, even on a miss, so dropping a hand is just to make the layback easier. If you are flexible enough to sit up straight while throwing the kick, it can still come off about right.

I still think it isn't necessary, but if it was a big deal to you, you could do it.
 
You use body angle, distance and your right shoulder to protect your right hand side when you throw a right sided kick. What happens when you throw a straight right hand? Where is your hand to protect your head then? And you don't have the advantage of a good body position and distance on your side.

As for telegraphing well the step is more to worry about than the arm swinging down.
 
look guys

my point is swinging your arm down doesnt add power to your kick

why?
its simple your are not adding momentum or body weigth to the strike in fact your doing the exact opposite

think about it youre swinging your arm with force BACK while your hips are twist with force FORWARD and your leg is shooting out

how is this putting more force into the strike? momentum is going one way with the arm going down and then its going another way from the hips and leg thrusting forward

this is hardly adding power sure you can argue against it but of course you would be defying logic completely( if you want to do this be my guest)


of course keeping your hand at ear or cheekbone level is hard an uncomfortable to do i never argued for this however i think its extremely unwise to throw your hand down below your waist level when you kick because..

1. you are telegraphing your attack my swinging your arm down

2. it doesnt add power therefore its useless

3. youre leaving a part of your body or face wide open for a countner punch or kick

You are actually wrong because not only does it act as a counter balance but swinging the hand Down also acts as if u were dragging something into your kick. This allows ur kick to travel the same distance in a greater speed.

This is a phenomenon of the antagonists. Just having let antagonists isn't enough to out a strong kick. So we swing our hand down as if ur dragging him into the kick.

Analogous with punches is the cross. If is much stronger after a jab than if u just through one. Why? Because ur late are acting as the antagonists.

And ur incorrect when u say a kick doesn't come from the body. It does just as a punch utilizes the legs.
 
Left hand answer the phone..
Right arm swing down and through. Swing it back up to recover stance

Repeat as needed.
 
Is that why astronauts can fly through space by waving their arms?
 
Is that why astronauts can fly through space by waving their arms?

astronauts aren't grounded to anything.

do you swing your arms opposite to your leg strides when you walk or just keep them in place?
 
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