Drew's hearty post #2: Full mount Darce thread.

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Drew Foster, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I will start by saying the Darce/Brabo is my favorite choke (as most people here know) and that this thread is not about any finishes from top half-guard, the normal finish from top-side, or the Marce/Glover finish from your back/side. If you want those, visit http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/my-darce-sucks-1298869/.

    Anyways, I was told by someone that uses this finish a lot that it is getting very important. The normal knees-in or sprawl out Darce/Brabo finish from top-side and even the finish off the back/side where you walk your hips in are both very popular. Still effective, but I have been told that a lot of high level players are starting to be able to scramble and break the grips once you even have the hand locked to the bicep. They're able to create space between the neck and shoulder, and stop the choke. Finishing from a closed positon (guard or mount) can be great because if they can break the grips, you aren't creating a scramble. The mount is the obvious choice, as if you lose the choke (you won't) you'll have the full mount. I should note that the only finished Darce at ADCC 2009 (there were a TON of attempts) was when Lovato Jr. got the choke. He was stepping as if to go to full mount right as his opponent tapped.

    The first time I saw this finish was when Cobrinha did it to Magno Gama at the No-Gi Worlds in 2007.

    5:26 Tell me what you think about this finish, guys/gals.
    Does it qualify as a full mount to you? To me it doesn't, even though you may get points, who knows... But I like it because you are using the right thigh to keep his arm and shoulder close to his neck (Cobrinha uses the top leg in the Anaconda choke to bring the shoulder/arm close to the neck). You have good base on your shin, and you're in between being on your side, and being in full mount, even though a leg is thrown over. This variation's squeezing power is SICK! I prefer this the most, and if I have to go to the full mount head-post, I will.

    Full mount head post?

    1:00. Notice how
    on the finish from the high full mount, Ryan is posting his forehead on the mat, similar to how Garcia finishes his mounted Guillotines by posting his forehead and pushing his elbows to the mat. If you don't post your forehead, and you try to keep upright posture, you will fall forward and have no leverage to finish the squeeze.

    2:30. Again,
    as soon as he steps over, he keeps his balance and posts the head.

    Anyone here do this. Mikey, feel free (or not) to tell people your success with this one. Lots of people know I love the choke, and a lot of people know you do to.

    Thoughts on this? More links? Opinions?

    I should point out that SO many people lose the Darce when an opponent scrambles flat on their back. These people transition for the N/S choke, or Kimura, etc. All they'd have to do is throw the body side leg over, and have a potentially better finish than any other Darce finish. I think finishing the Darce from the mount is at least an important skill to have, even if you don't prefer it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
  2. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Damn I guess Drew's "meaty post" idea is dead before it starts LOL
     
  3. Il Wop-O

    Il Wop-O Green Belt

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    No, man, I like your meaty thread ideas. I'll play with this a bit before I opine, however. I'm one of those shorter, muscley guys w/ T-Rex arms, so D'Arce/Brabo chokes are lower priorities for me. Things have to be just right for me to hit them on equally-skilled guys.
     
  4. Il Wop-O

    Il Wop-O Green Belt

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    Should've watched the Ryan Hall video before posting.

    Yes, the stepover to mount to finish it, I've done that w/ good results. I also use that same stepover with guillotines - trying to copy Marcelo, of course!
     
  5. JH34PG

    JH34PG White Belt

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    I love the darce
     
  6. RibCrusher**

    RibCrusher** Orange Belt

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    i can't get enough of your meat. keep tossing you meat all over this place so we can all enjoy it!
     
  7. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    The thing about that stepover to mount Guillotine is that no matter what body type you have, it works perfectly. If you even have the Darce/Brabo and have short arms, stepping over to mount will most likely twist their neck into the choke so fast that they tap before you even get your knee to the mat.


    What do you guys think about Cobrinha's finish?
     
  8. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    :eek:
     
  9. FunkyRMe

    FunkyRMe White Belt

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    Awesome
     
  10. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    The meaty posts are cool Drew. You might not get alot of responses, common for technique threads but I guarantee you'll get alot of people viewing them.

    Quick question and a little off topic, hope you don't mind...I'm short 5' 8". My arms aren't too long. Even though I try to make an effort to work darce's and anacondas, I can't seem to get them to work on anything except whitebelts and little guys. Of course I should still learn them, but should I just not waste too much time learning a technique that my body type just isn't made for? Perhaps you have some tips for guys with shorter arms.
     
  11. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    I've been using that ever since I realized that since I suck at tapping people with the brabo, I might as well use it to improve position. But that detail of posting with the forehead might make the difference, maybe now I will improve position AND submit people with it! Thanks!

    I also like the brabo->full guard->triangle sequence. When people are getting choked they usually forget about the "one arm in one arm out" rule.
     
  12. xMikeyX

    xMikeyX Purple Belt

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    I am experimenting with the anaconda choke and finishing like a guillotine- this is gonna be a good thread anyways.

    For all those with short arms- if your arms are too short you make your opponent's arm longer.
     
  13. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I absolutely agree with what xMikeyx says in regards to, "maker their arms longer if your arms are short."

    It sounds very Zen like, but it works. The advantage YOU have with head-and-arm chokes is that if you can lock it up (bring your hand to bicep) they are probably already deep in the choke. I have long arms, BUT, I think I can still help, at least with the Brabo/Darce. The Anaconda you might need to give me some time. I'm having problems with it now myself.

    This is where you really get to work your gable/vice grip to bring their head all the way down so their chin in touching their chest. We like to not have to discomfort our buddies if we can, but you're really going to have to crank their chin way down to their chest to get this to work. I'm going to assume that you've already gotten your opponent onto their side, regardless of what setup you used. Setting this up froma turtle is good for people with small arms, because you don't have to shoot your choking arm through spaces as you pass, etc.

    You flip them on their side with that gable grip and KEEP that pressure on their neck. Make sure the gable grip is fastened at the back of their head, not at the base of the neck. You want to crank to head down placing your gable grip as high as possible without it slipping off the head. If they're on their side and you have the grip behind their neck, you aren't gonna be able to crank their head to their chest. I like to place the gable grip in that notch where the top of the neck meets the base of the skull.

    Crank in hard (it's not being a prick, it's pressure) and thenshoot your arms into the figure-four/RNC grip. You can even continue to pull straight back with your left tricep to keep their head tucked, assuming your right arm is the choking arm.

    You can do the ole Marc Laimon finish, and when you crank them onto their side, take your left hand and palm the back of their head like a basketball. As you drop your right shoulder to shoot the choking arm through, palm that head and force the chin way down into the chest, then after you are wrist deep across their neck with your right hand, lock up the figure-four/RNC grip.

    As you shoot the arm across, remember to drop your choking arm's shoulder as low as you can, while still controlling their head with the vice grip or left palm. You want that shoulder low, so you can do a European uppercut movement to get that choking arm all the way through and outside of the neck.

    This may frustrate you at first, but no one who has found a way to make the Darce really work for them, has anything bad to say about the move. It might not ever be your go-to, but who knows? If your arms are short, you WILL get fast taps if you lock it in right.

    BTW, I European uppercut is where you uppercut someone with your bicep. If you can get your bicep flush across his chin, chances are if you also have his head down far enough, your had and wrist should be exposed enough to lock in the choke.

    Lemme know if that is enough detail or not.
     
  14. xMikeyX

    xMikeyX Purple Belt

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    This match is all about maintaining the darce and why the finish away from mount or guard can take a long ass fuckin time.
     
  15. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Wow, it's your lucky day!

    Watch Johny Hendricks, member of Team Takedown and Cobrai Kai JJ under Marc Laimon, the guy that I first heard the term "European Uppercut" from. Hendricks is a fighter with shorter limbs. Watch how he dips his right shoulder low (1:38) while controlling the back of his opponents head to create the space to shoot his choking arm through. THIS is something you can practice!

     
  16. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    Thanks Drew. That was plenty of detail. I know some of the basics to sink the choke in deeper like gable gripping, cranking the neck down, and the uppercut but I'm not hitting it as often as I'd like. Its cool to have the details reiterated though, I'm sure it'll help. I'll make sure to pay attention to the details and not give up on the move.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
  17. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Good example. As I said in the other My Darce Sucks thread, I don't really use the guard finish for the choke very much, but man is it super tight! Did you see the video I posted of Joel Tudor using it? That's like a baby giraffe locking you up right there man.
     
  18. xMikeyX

    xMikeyX Purple Belt

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    About 5:15 minutes in Glover teaches a version of the Shaolin from mount- at 6 minutes in you can see him "stuffing" the opponent's hand down (you can pull the opponent's wrist with the same hand to make his arm "longer")

    in fact when people resist you stuffing their arm into their face you pull it like jiu jitsu! It's perpendicular to their resistance.
     
  19. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Also let me know if the Johny Hendricks video I posted a couple posts back for you! :icon_chee
     
  20. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Yea that one is awesome! I am still trying to figure out the one he does from the armlock to triangle to Darce/Brabo/Shaolin/Danaher/etc.LOL at 4:52
     

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