Drastically different game in gi and nogi

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Mcmoon, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. Mcmoon

    Mcmoon Green Belt

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    I started out with more of an mma focused bjj game and while I did train in gi I done just as much if not more nogi. I moved after college and am now training in judo which of course is all gi.

    I have noticed some of my go to moves in nogi are quite a bit harder to pull off such as the triangle and the anaconda/darce choke. I do not have particularly long legs or arms but the friction that is added to with gi makes it more difficult for me to slip my leg across or my arms through. I have hit more armbars in the gi since starting though.

    I was wondering if anyone has this issue or know of an famous grapplers whose gi and nogi games are rather different?
     
  2. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    Michael Langhi or Romulo Barral. Basically, any spider guard specialist. They tend not to be as dominant in both formats, however.

    As for head & arm chokes, I think they work just fine in the gi, they are just too easy in no gi. Using them in the gi requires better technique and more positional adjustments.
     
  3. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Quality as usual
     
  4. BillyPilgrim

    BillyPilgrim Green Belt

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    For me it was more about my passing and guard-retention than anything else. While I'm not super gifted when it comes to jiu-jitsu, one thing I did have was incredibly strong grips with great endurance. If I clamp onto a sleeve or lapel you better bring your A game to break it. Obviously a different game in no-gi, which usually makes for a funner roll because there are lots more scrambles, etc.
     
  5. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    Rodolfo Viera. His gi game is amazing, his no-gi game is just so-so (for an elite guy) because he's very gi dependent for his takedowns and passing.
     
  6. Mcmoon

    Mcmoon Green Belt

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    I would say I have fairly strong grips but I have better guard retention and reestablishing guard in nogi because there is less for them to grab.
     
  7. cms9690

    cms9690 Green Belt

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    Non-Gi Chokes done in the gi require a higher level of proficiency when performing the technique.

    That is probably the problem.
     
  8. nefti

    nefti Red Belt

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    i will say that guys who play what i call "power open guard" have more trouble than guys who are great at inverting and have dynamic movement. Vitor, Braulio, Keenan, ect all do great in no gi\adcc. It's guys like Romolo that likes to play power open guards that needs to adjust... and Romolo did exactly that, he adjusted and won adcc in 2013
     
  9. BrainBar

    BrainBar Orange Belt

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    Doing things in the gi will require more precise technique, due to the friction and grips. I had the same problem with triangles and darce chokes. I really had to work on my angles and leverage. But in the end...it made me better in no-gi as a result, because I just got better at the technique.
     
  10. tap21

    tap21 Green Belt

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    HA! Nice try gi-sters!

    Doing things in the gi doesn't require "better", "higher level", or "more precise" technique.

    It just requires DIFFERENT techniques because the rules & attire are different.

    By your logic, Judo requires "better" technique than Greco. It's not better technique it's just different technique to suit different rules and attire.
     
  11. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I'm a nogi dude, and I kind of agree with them actually. Just hear me out. The same way that working on finishing armbars in nogi due to sweat and less friction will help you out in the gi, doing arm triangles in the gi I think will help improve them in nogi.

    I'm a darce/guillotine fantatic, and I don't think you can really make a case that those aren't easier to do in nogi, due to less friction of your sleeve and their collar, so it's easier to slide your arms into position. So, if you work those positions in the gi (arm triangles, guillotines, north-south chokes, RNCs, etc) then when you get to nogi, they seem to feel a lot smoother. Again, I don't think I'm an authority on many things, but I do the shit out of "nogi" style chokes, both in and out of the gi.

    Working them in the gi will sharpen them up in nogi. It's just true. Again, it's the same way how your armbars will become sharper in the gi if you really focus on them in nogi. It's a 2-sided coin, so they aren't just trying to say that working EVERYTHING in the gi will improve your nogi...but for arm triangle variations, I certainly believe that to be true.

    You made a stat list after ADCC 2011 and 2013, right? If you did one for Worlds or Pans, I promise you that the numbers of guillotines, rear naked chokes, arm triangles, and darces/brabos would be noticeably less.
     
  12. Mcmoon

    Mcmoon Green Belt

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    As you pointed out armbars are easier in the gi and I have been pulling off more armbars due to the extra grip that has come with the gi. I guess I will just keep working on those chokes. I have also come to the conclusion that I have grown a little since I first started and may make getting these chokes a little harder especially since I carry a lot of my weight in my legs. I started at about 160 lbs and now I am on a bulk and about 188 lbs and I am 5'9.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  13. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    Drew already schooled you on this, but to address your example:

    Judo doesn't require better technique than Greco, but if you were to employ a pummeling-based Greco bodylock game in judo, it would require a higher level of (offensive) pummeling skill than if trying to execute the same game in a leotard.

    Similarly, pulling off judo style foot sweeps at arm's length in (freestyle) wrestling is more challenging than in judo, since the lack of gi grips makes off-balancing someone at that range (e.g. using collar-tie & wrist control) a lot harder.
     
  14. Dogstarman

    Dogstarman Old man jiu jitsu

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    Wow. I train both gi and no-gi equally and I don't agree with this post.

    It's already been addressed. No need for further besmirching.
     
  15. Mcmoon

    Mcmoon Green Belt

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    Not sure if you know the answer to this but do you know of any judokas that have a heavy pummeling game?
     
  16. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    I'm no judo expert, but I have the impression that there basically aren't any. There were some that used bearhugs before the bodylock ban, and some guys use the single underhook to counter a high collar grip, but pummeling entries don't seem common.
     
  17. Mike Piekarski

    Mike Piekarski Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    I'm more of a nogi dude too and get frustrating while rolling in the gi and I lose a lot of my best attacks. Mainly the guillotine and darces are more difficult due to friction. I was very anti-gi choke for awhile but found it much much easier to grab them instead of forcing the nogi chokes. I try to do at least a 50/50 split of gi/nogi so I don't build any bad habits.
     
  18. Mcmoon

    Mcmoon Green Belt

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    Yep I am doing mostly gi chokes and armbars now. Since moving to judo I do not really have the option of nogi training unless I drop in to a bjj place.
     
  19. waiguoren

    waiguoren Silver Belt

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    Drew,

    Any tips/videos to help landing guillotines in the gi? High elbow is my go-to in no gi but now that I'm training in the gi it just doesn't feel right.
     
  20. tap21

    tap21 Green Belt

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    You're making my point for me. DIFFERENT techniques are higher percentage in the gi and nogi.
     

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