Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by Robocok, Jun 7, 2021.
Solid YouTube channel I recently discovered.
Maybe he's not garbage, but I'd recommend getting health recommendations from more traditional sources and not from chiropractors ambiguously presenting themselves on YouTube in order to potentially pass as a medical doctor to the average viewer.
His advice is solid and explained in a detailed and easy to understand way.
He does in fact explain things clearly - but he also has videos like this, which is potentially dangerous misinformation. He understands most of the scientific jargon but his conclusions and recommendations are just contrary to the evidence.
I don't mind watching the whole video, but can you be specific about what conclusions and recommendations you believe are contrary to the evidence as well as a source for said evidence?
Yeah sorry, was running out.
“LDL or total cholesterol 300 isn’t necessarily bad”
LDL 300 is absolutely bad and proven to be a significant cardiovascular risk. Average viewer watching that video will go to their primary care doctor and almost certainly be more reluctant to adhere to whatever treatment regiment they should be taking.
It’s problematic that he is not a healthcare provider legally allowed to provide prescriptions or manage care of patients, (but is essentially masquerading as such) his own medical recommendations over YouTube are contrary to bodies of research and are likely damaging in terms of people getting care that they need.
Besides the LDL issue, was there any other recommendation of his that you disagreed with?
I think prescription drugs are a poor band aid that treat symptoms and ignore the root cause of the issue.
In my own experience, doctors have been useless in their recommendations and treatment options. About 6-7 years ago, I had my first flare up of psoriatic arthritis, an autoimmune disorder, which nearly killed me. In the course of 2 years I met with 6 different doctors who all recommended the same thing, immunosuppressive medications along with antibiotics to prevent infection. This was a band aid fix that temporarily relieved the symptoms of my illness but the next flare up was always just around the corner.
The long term side effects of the drugs they were giving and planning to give me are devastating as well as being extremely expensive: corticosteroids like dexamethasone and prednisone, antibiotics, omeprazole, high strength nsaids, humira. I may be forgetting some.
Anyway, I was using NSAIDs every day to function and go to work and it was taking a toll on my liver and GI. Out of desperation I began to research my illness and through luck met a random guy from Greece who had also suffered from a similar illness in the comments section of a YouTube video. He's the one who gave me my life back by telling me about AIP, autoimmune protocol diet, only one week before I was about to start humira.
My disease has been in remission ever since and I haven't had a single flare up and hardly even a cold since then. My immune system seems to be practically bulletproof now. When my gp commented on how much better I looked at my next appointment when I was due for another corticosteroid shot along with starting humira,I told him that I'd started aip diet. His response was "oh yeah, I've heard of that"
Do you think it's interesting that this was never suggested as a possible form of treatment? I sure did but it makes sense. Where's the money in it for them? I don't need drugs or doctors anymore. By simply following this diet along with practicing intermittent fasting and being mindful of my gut health, I've essentially cured myself. This is not good business for them.
Did you know that in the US we take more pharmaceutical drugs and spend more money on health care than any other country in the world? We rank 44th among other nations for average lifespan. Our government subsidizes wheat, corn, and soy, which are found in about 90% of the food you find at the store and 2 of which are poorly tolerated by the VAST majority of the population.
This is part of the reason that we have this supposed pandemic. Obesity rates are soaring yet people are starving for the micronutrients lacking in our food. Our food is garbage. Even a lot of the supposedly healthy food is ridden with pesticides, hormones, antibiotics, preservatives, chemical additives, and food coloring.
I think it's on purpose. The pharmaceutical industry generates over a trillion a year. This is a money train that they don't ever want to stop. Most of our food options eventually cause people's immune systems to fail and they have the answer for that. They don't want to cure anyone. They want perpetually sick lifelong patients.
Based on my experience, can you understand the disdain I have towards doctors? Every time I hear them double down on vaccines and medications being the answer to our health problems, I feel a spark of hatred for modern western medicine.
When I hear a guy like Ekberg talk about the problem with wheat and how poorly tolerated it is by most people, I hear someone who is understanding the bigger picture and preaching the gospel of true health. Only 20 years ago, traditional sources were telling us that the majority of our diet should be carbohydrates from bread and pasta. Do you really respect traditional sources?
Disclaimer: I am an allopathic trained physician (MD)
I believe in epistemologies which are evidence based (I.e peer-reviewed scientific research which uses proven methods and extensive data) but I also believe anecdote and accept the limitations of our knowledge. I’m sorry that you have had a shit time with doctors. Most of the American public health care system (I’m not sure where you live) is designed as sick care which focuses on managing risk factors and chronic diseases which are mostly expressions of bad lifestyles and nutrition - this is also further incentivized by big pharma and for profit systems which make money off of illness.
Now with that being said - there are certain subjects within medicine that have very large amounts of evidence which demonstrate increased risk and mortality and decisions to start a patient on a drug are rooted in cost - benefit analysis.
If I know that a patient has X risk factor for Cardiovascular mortality and morbidity in the next 10 years based on a simple laboratory value and I can offer him a simple low-cost drug like a statin which has a very limited side effect profile, I sure as hell want my patient to take their statin.
Now if this patient comes to me with an LDL of 300 and says that he saw a video on YouTube from another “Doctor” who isn’t in fact a medical doctor with a medical recommendation which can potentially lead to premature death, say in another 10 years - I’m not gonna be happy.
Now I don’t want to disregard everything that this guy says, because some of his advice is also good and logical - but the ability of the average viewer to discern which is legitimate advice vs. advice which can potentially harm them in the future is very limited. So I inherently take issue with sources like him (although I believe he is well intending) and can cause unintended damages as a result.
On a personal note - I work now primarily as a primary care doc in the community and I personally believe in carbohydrate restriction and physical activity (lifting them weights) as the best medicine most people can do for themselves - but most people aren’t capable of making the lifestyle changes that you have described for yourself and so many docs wind up relying solely on medical therapy (drugs) as you described.
Yeah, I realize that my story is anecdotal but my personal experience obviously holds a lot of value to me.
I've also met multiple people who suffer from the same issues as me, but not to the same extreme to where they were close to death, who I strongly believe could have benefited from aip.
With some of them, when I explain the diet, their eyes glaze over and I can tell that they're having trouble understanding the premise behind it in spite of the fact that it's quite simple. I blame myself for this. As Einstein once said, "if you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
The other reaction I've encountered has been one of enthusiasm and an eagerness to begin their journey of natural healing, only for them to give up when they realize the sacrifice, especially initially, required to remain aip compliant.
So I think I understand what you mean about people refusing to take personal responsibility for their health.
In some ways, it sucks. You can't eat at some restaurants or the majority of the menu is off limits. Asian food, which I love, is almost all out of the question due to soy unless they're willing to take special care to prepare it to my specifications, and I hate asking. A lot of places are cool about it but I still feel like a pita explaining that I can't eat wheat, soy, and prefer to avoid night shades and inflammatory vegetable oils.
I used to enjoy pizzas, cakes, pies, cookies, donuts, sandwiches, etc. Luckily, there are a lot of gluten free alternatives though quite often they contain soy so I have to be quite careful. Some people can tolerate soy but for me it causes crippling depression as well as inflammation. Specific dietary requirements for aip vary from person to person.
I check the labels of everything, and for someone new to this, it's understandably daunting.
My main contention with the research that you base your approach to care on is the fact that again, I believe it's heavily influenced by the for profit health care system. It wasn't long ago that we went through the fat free everything phase, the 'research and studies' for which I've heard was largely funded by the makers of high fructose corn syrup and sugar. I don't know if this is true but perhaps that's what spawned the marketing campaigns for this kind of garbage misleading people to believe that this was somehow a reasonably healthy choice:
Remember when studies and 'research' led us to believe that this was a guideline for a healthy diet?
My concern is that the current research is still tainted and that this will always be the case. There's simply too much money at stake.
Couple that with the fact that most people want the simple fix like a pill or drug to address their health problems and it becomes a problem for everyone when considering how many people demand 'free healthcare' and how many doctors are completely clueless about holistic medicine and diet. I believe in the quote by Hippocrates: "let food be thy medicine"
I applaud the fact that you have some awareness of the benefits exercise and of limiting carbohydrates for some people though I believe that carbs are also extremely important as well. I think it goes far deeper than just limiting carbohydrates. There is some merit to the KISS method but as you know, there can also be a point where it's so simple that it becomes stupid.
Do you talk to your patients about gut health and fasting? These 2 things alone are enormously powerful tools capable of slowing and reversing a good number of ailments.
Another negative experience that I had with doctors was when my uncle was diagnosed with upper GI cancer. His doctor instructed him to eat as much as possible to keep his weight up. I still remember the frustration and despair that I felt as he told me his diagnosis over a dinner of pepperoni pizza. As I'm sure you're aware, cured meats are specifically linked to his exact type of cancer but my words didn't carry a lot of weight with him because of the fact that I have no formal background in medicine, so he stuck with his moronic doctor's advice and kept eating pepperoni pizzas when he wasn't too weak from chemo. He didn't last long and I'm convinced that had I been able to reach him and properly explain this to him, he would have lived longer and had a better quality of life with the time he had left.
All of these things have contributed to this adversarial relationship I feel with so many doctors today. I also watched a past gf butchered and murdered in surgery by doctors at a hospital in Long Beach, California a few years ago after developing a blood clot in her brain as a result of the oral contraceptive her physician had prescribed her.
Now come to present day with covid, which I don't believe is as deadly as claimed, and I remain frustrated by the fact that I'm convinced that the vaccine will eventually become mandatory and necessary in order to participate in normal society. I'll never take it as I have no need for it because my immune system is sufficiently strong.
This is why I moved from overly restrictive California to rural Tennessee in a county with no mask mandate where I can begin raising and growing my own food. I'm convinced that without the vaccine passport (which I think is the mark of the beast prophesied in the book of Revelations), I eventually won't be able to do normal things like enter stores and shop for groceries or have a business, bank account, or job. Hopefully I am totally wrong about this but so far every prediction I've made about the plannedemic has been spot on. That's why I've been trying to farm to feed my family.
Food prices and availability, especially quality organic options, are going to spiral out of control. Access to trash gmo corn, wheat, and soy options will probably remain available, especially for everyone stupid enough to take the vaccine.
I altered your original post as to make it a bit easier to respond to point by point.. forgive any alterations - no harm intended.
1. So, I think there is some truth to big pharma having bad influence w/ money at stake - for example lots of media now covering a new Alzheimers "cure" based on research but in reality the research demonstrates only proven efficacy in reducing disease burden and development in a subset of early-onset Alzheimers (so hardly can be proven a cure.) But it's in the interest to gain buzz from media and the end result is that you have tons of people reading these headlines going to their physicians and demanding a prescription for a miracle cure that doesn't exist. The pharmaceutical company invested billions in research and development and want a return on their investment. I don't think the whole of scientific knowledge which our society is based on is motivated by this same kind of corruption. We learn in med school physiology, pathophysiology, and how to manage or treat that pathophysiology. Most people that go to med school at the end of the day (it is my belief) are primarily motivated by caring for others and not a part of a larger conspiracy to keep people sick (that's more just an end result of a broken system)
2. I'm not sure what you mean in regards that carbohydrates are important.. we are by no means glycolytic obligate organisms but it's generally a safe recommendation to tell people to reduce intake of refined carbs.
I am very aware of the benefits of exercise - there is literally no better medicine.
3. I haven't personally recommended fasting as an intervention in clinic but I do refer to an endocrinology clinic (run by a big researcher) which routinely uses it.
Gut health is mostly pseudoscience at this point... we know that it's important but how to maintain healthy flora is mostly quackery of what is spread on the internet. I will recommend a probiotic if someone experiences post antibiotic diarrhea or if they are recovering from a C. Diff infection and are post antibiotic therapy. Stool transplants are another subject but not relevant to general gut health.
4. Our sum of our life experiences is merely a series of anecdotes - so perfectly reasonable to reference when talking about our opinions and how they were formed.
As far as the recommendation of not eating pepperoni while being sick w/ GI cancer I can see as being frustrating but from a medical perspective - irrelevant. The doc was likely making a generalized recommendation to eat up as that he wouldn't suffer from terribly reduced quality of life later in advanced disease. The RRR (relative risk reduction) of avoiding processed meat while undergoing aggressive chemotherapy for a GI malignancy is almost certainly meaningless in terms of changing the outcome of his illness - far better that your uncle enjoy and eat food that he likes during this period.
Also, sorry to hear about your ex. Hypercoagulability is a known side effect of estrogen based oral contraceptives... shit luck that she had a blood clot and even more shit luck that she had an undiagnosed heart defect which caused it to go to her brain (this is called a paradoxical embolism) which is an unfortunate and rare occurrence. Sometimes we fall on the bad side of statistics and get fucked - as is life and the world unfortunately. Luckily we learn from our mistakes (as is science) and there are oral contraceptives that exist now that don't incur the same tendency for blood clotting (progesterone based alternatives.)
5. As per COVID, I worked for 3 months this past year in inpatient COVID management and was sick myself. 2 months of which were in a regular inpatient department with patients that required supplemental oxygen and medical therapy (steroids and if they were lucky to get some love they'd get some remdesivir thrown at them too.) For the last month I was in the ICU w/ intubated patients - it was miserable. (working with ICU staff in full PPE to flip over intubated fatties onto their stomach so that you can mitigate the V/Q mismatch of their pulmonary edema secondary to severe ARDS.) I would come home from these shifts, turn on the news and want to murder everyone that was questioning the reality or dangerousness of the virus. It was a fucking nightmare - really. You feel like you're fighting a war and you literally have to deal w/ a not insignificant number of deaths each week (that you are responsible for their care) and then you go home and see assholes on social media and the news telling you that you're exaggerating. I wish everyone could spend a day in the COVID ICU and experience the nightmare that was our day in and day out life for so long.I saw a lot of people die... the virus is deadly and fucking evil and I hated every minute of working in those departments. I also know that the vaccine is the main reason we're able to end that reality and I am so happy w/ the situation now w/ our amount of vaccinated vs. not. and please wear masks when it's appropriate! I got sick despite wearing full PPE but we know it works in reducing transmission.
No worries. I will respond later
1. The influence of big pharma is massive. Again, over a trillion a year. A large amount of your medical knowledge has been influenced by them, hence why you don't know very much about fasting, food allergies, gut health, and holistic medicine in general in spite of your expertise being human health. These are some of the basic fundamentals of good health...
It also explains why your go to treatment for someone with high cholesterol is drugs rather than recommending that your patient changes their lifestyle and diet. The problem is that you've already indicated that you don't have a strong grasp of what those changes should be.
I'm not trying to attack you directly and I know that the schooling necessary to become a doctor is not easy. You worked very hard to learn a lot of information that is wrong.
I agree with you that a lot of medical professionals are not incompetent on purpose. The problem lies in the education (lack thereof).
2. It's good that you're acknowledging the dangers of refined carbs. At least it seems that you have some awareness of simple vs complex carbs and the glycemic index and their impact on insulin which can affect our hormone levels as well as a myriad of other processes in the body. It's all interrelated.
I like carbs at times because I feel like it helps me when I work out if my muscle glycogen stores are topped off.
But I've also been fascinated by the carnivore diet. Some people really seem to thrive on it. For myself, I like to use low carb and keto as a tool to reset my insulin sensitivity but it's not something that I've wanted to make a full time change to.
Eckberg commented on refined carbs in his video. I don't know if you had the chance to watch that but he's well versed in their deleterious effects.
3. Again, it's a bummer that you, a supposedly trained medical professional, have little knowledge of gut health.
The fact that you call gut health a pseudoscience throws quite a bit of your credibility right out the window. My girlfriend's daughter is in med school right now as is the daughter's bf. He specializes in mental health research and explained to me last year how in their testing with rats they've discovered that the intelligence/mental health of the rats is directly related to their gut microbiome.
A common problem with a lot of doctors is that after med school, their education is over and their knowledge base becomes fixed and stagnant. I get it. The workload of a lot of doctors is staggering. To be frank, I'm surprised that you've managed to invest as much time into our conversation as you already have.
To cover it very briefly, probiotics, which can be found naturally in certain foods and don't necessarily need to be prescribed, fasting (as well as intermittent fasting), and avoiding processed, non-organic foods are all critical to a healthy gut. One of the key problems with non-organic food and gut health is the over prolific use of antibiotics in our food system these days due to monoculture farming.
Basically, farmers are packing the maximum amount of a single species of animals possible into a given space. Since you have a large number of animals living in a small space, they're standing in their own waste and it becomes a breeding ground for viruses and pathogens which spread rapidly due to their proximity to one another.
Furthermore, like people today, their feed often consists of a lot of gmo soy and corn trash that leads to a weak immune systen and them vulnerable to infection. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon to see why this is such a problem.
So they're often given antibiotics both for the purpose of weight gain and as a preventive measure to ensure that they don't get sick thus maximizing profits. Vietnam in particular is known for their egregious overuse of antibiotics. They constantly dump it into the water at their fish farms where it builds up over time. Again, the problem with this is 2 fold. One, over time bacteria begins to become resistant to the antibiotics and we now have 'super strains' of antibiotic resistant bacteria. Second, we're eating the flesh of these animals thus destroying our own balance of 'healthy' bacteria in the gut.
Look into John Cisna and his all McDonald's diet experiment, not unlike Morgan Spurlock in Supersize Me, and the effect that it had on his gut microbiome in only 10 days, after which he had killed off 1,300 of the original 3,500 different species of bacteria living in his gut.
If you have time to banter back and forth with me then it should be ok for you to look into it further.
4. Your claim that eating cured meats was irrelevant is again demonstrating your lack of knowledge on this subject. It's something that Eckberg discusses in the 2nd video of my op. Even in general advice, this is not a minor detail that should have been specifically addressed by my uncle's doctor. It's likely that he wasn't even aware of the correlation as most doctors don't pursue continuing education after completing school.
As for my ex, they basically sawed her head open to relieve the pressure and left her brain dead. She was still doing ok until some hack decided to slice her open like the final dinner scene of Hannibal.
Of course he claimed that she would have died anyway without the surgery.
5. I already told you that I'm immune to covid due to the measures I take to strengthen my physical defenses. I and my elderly parents have flown all over the country multiple times since the beginning of the plannedemic and we're perfectly fine.
The viral load of my exposure is probably just as high as yours. I don't wear masks unless I'm forced. I don't disinfect. I still did bjj, including with randoms.
Out of an abundance of caution, I was wearing a mask in February last year before there ever was a mask mandate. Everyone looked at me like I was nuts for it but I was living in Irvine, California at the time which has a large Chinese community and I had met a couple people from Wuhan. I followed the infection numbers closely and at the time that the number of infected in Orange County had reached 800, I came to the realization that there was NOWHERE to get tested at the time. How do they know that there are 800 positive cases if I myself couldn't even go to get checked? So in reality, the # of infected was much higher than that and the death rate was far lower than they had predicted when they were originally claiming that there would be millions dead even with a lockdown.
We first heard of the virus in November and there was no lockdown for many months. People were still flying in and out of China spreading it all over the world. Forcing masks on people in March for a virus that originated almost 6 months earlier was and is stupid. We'd already been exposed.
I also can't feel super moved by your story about the covid ward when I've talked to other nurses irl who have said the opposite, that their covid ward was never full. 600,000 in a country of 350,000,000 is nothing statistically, especially given the fact that flu #s have dropped to nothing. Masks are supposedly very effective at slowing that down but covid rates were supposedly out of control because it's so much more contagious. It's a crock of shit and the fact that my 70 year old dad did everything that you say that he shouldn't goes to show one of 2 things. Either the virus is not as deadly as claimed or my family has great genetics in spite of how many people claimed that we were stupid for deciding to stop wearing masks around the time they were being instructed to wear theirs.
The plan is to have everyone on annual vaccines for life which will be enforced with the mark of the beast vaccine passport chip which will go in your right hand or forehead. Quality food will become even more expensive and scarce thus forcing people to eat gmo corn, wheat, and soy further weakening their immune systems making them more vulnerable to whatever new variants of the virus they cook up in Wuhan and driving up fear. Stupid people will freak out and unvaccinated folks like me will be blamed. The pharmaceutical industry will continue to make a lot of money as they convince you that the key to health is jabs and pills.
Youll never convince someone who is pro vaccination or mask that there may be problems down the road,incredibly shortsighted IMO.To them corporations and government can do no wrong.
Two points I had to throw out there I got back from my doctor I see to monitor my blood clotting issues as well as get my medication and he advised since I was healthy I should wait on taking the vaccine (I had no intention of taking it anyway). Second my uncle who is a doctor at one of the best trauma hospitals we have is declining the vaccine along with some of the nurses. Kind of goes against the media narrative that all frontline workers are clamoring for the vaccine. So there’s two doctors saying wait or not take it at all. Huge red flags for this experimental vaccine.
I came into this conversation with good will and I’m not sure why you’re taking this oddly passive aggressive angle at me with far too many assumptions about the extent of my knowledge and beliefs. It is clear to me that you are lacking some basic science literacy and I’m not going to argue with you over your medical beliefs.
I'm not sure why you individually think this is some sort of emotional based tribalist issue.
My family and I all got the Pfizer shot based on available scientific data at the time.
We do now have some new data showing potential issues with myocarditis sequalae to covid vaccination that is now emerging.
That data is interesting. It is a little troubling, but it's also preliminary and we've seen more serious cardiovascular pathology and tissue damage in real life cases of sars covid 2 than we've seen in post covid vaccination myocarditis cases that are currently reported.
If I had to do it again, I'd still get the damn shot. But to act like me individually or everyone who is presently pro vaccination is emotionally invested and couldn't possibly change their mind based on new data or a greater body of evidence is absurd.
You've essentially painted the picture that no one who is currently pro vaccination has made that stance on the basis of science. A conclusion based on the scientific method is open to review if new data emerges or it comes to light that previous data may not have been correctly interpreted.
ZDoggMD is a much better for youtube medicine videos. And workplace comedy.
As another health care practitioner who does not prescribe drugs, it would be professionally inappropriate of me to use my credentials while advocating against a prescription medication outside my scope of practice even though it would technically be covered under free speech if I made those statements as a private individual.
While many DC's seem to feel like their scope of practice is a false limitation which should be obliterated in all directions, there are plenty of responsible ones out there too.
And there are plenty of lunatic MDs as well, we're all people. But usually by the time things get really bad the licensure boards step in. Sometimes that happens with good timing, some times way too late.
We had a renal patient at one point who had been consuming turpentine orally, at the advice of some whackadoodle MD. It's nephrotoxic and highly likely damaged his kidneys even further, putting him closer to needing dialysis. I had to break it to him that this was a terrible idea and he should never drink turpentine in any way shape or form. Looked the MD up afterwards, she was a real MD.
BUT, she was literally on the run in a foreign country, her license had been suspended in New York, she had no showed her hearings and fled to the Carribean where she advised patients via streaming video.
If I came across as rude, I apologize.
Dr Ekburg explains why the majority of cooking oils available today are so bad for our health.
Oils that are generally ok:
Oils to avoid:
Vegetable oils such as-
Surprising to me is that avocado oil should be avoided if it's refined or has been heated to a high temperature. If it's unrefined it's ok but it's not really suitable for cooking.
Amen brother. These doctors pushed knee replacement on my Grandma in her late 60's and even after physical therapy her knees were never as healthy as they were before the surgery. My Mom tried to tell her the knee surgery was uncessary but that MD title is like magic and no amount of common sense thinking can peneterate peoples minds once a doctor tells them what to do.
Separate names with a comma.