Don’t Build Your BJJ Game on White Belt Techniques. (Stephan kesting)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by BJJ_Rage, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    Good article, I just dont agree on the calf slicer issue, they do work at all levels.

    http://www.grapplearts.com/dont-build-your-bjj-game-on-white-belt-techniques/

     
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  2. DushanS94

    DushanS94 Orange Belt

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    When someone knows their shit with calf slicers, they will blow up your knee, and it'ts nothing to mess with. Other than that, I agree, even though the Americana is a pretty good submission as a setup for something else.
     
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  3. These Two Hands

    These Two Hands Our revenge will be the laughter of our children

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    Ha ha ha ha... BAM! "Take that, ya milk-drinking little fecker!!!"
     
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  4. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    Did Gabi win world titles with americanas from top half guard?
     
  5. DushanS94

    DushanS94 Orange Belt

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    sure she did, which is why the comparison with "punching my 12 year old son in the face whom I outweigh by 100lbs" fits Gabi perfectly
     
  6. Darwinambrosius

    Darwinambrosius Thought you had a friend, boy?

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    I don't get it. He's says not to build a game based on "white belt techniques" then says that black belts at Mundials commonly win via techniques taught at the white belt level.

    Edit: and LOL at him basing his whole "article" around one submission being, in his opinion, not applicable at higher levels.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
  7. DrJitsu

    DrJitsu Orange Belt

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    I appreciate this point of view. And I think it's especially important for those looking to compete at the highest level. I get it- don't waste your time with the americana, focus on berimbolo and leglocks.

    However, I feel like some of the best BJJ practitioners are really effective at the basics. Look at Roger Gracie. He would routinely pull off "white belt moves" and sweeps on the highest levels. Same thing for Marcelo. Some would call the guillotine a "white belt move" but he really took it to another level. Same thing with the arm drag- pretty basic and he made it into a science.

    So I think there is really something to be said for mastering the basics. They can be very effective at the highest level, especially when you adapt them a bit to your own style. I also think the basics are the gateway for a lot of the "advanced" moves.

    Focusing on and mastering the basics is especially true for those of us who are not looking to be world champions. The basics are often a bit simpler, safer, lower risk and higher reward. Play with the fun, "advanced" stuff. Weave that stuff into your game. The basics are the foundation and I think critically important to an effective, well-rounded game.
     
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  8. Darwinambrosius

    Darwinambrosius Thought you had a friend, boy?

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    Doesn't Roger use a lot of collar chokes? Am I thinking of the right guy?
     
  9. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    you guys are confusing basic technique with low level % techniques. Amricana happenes to be one of the first subs everyone learns, and it works on white belts, specilly if you are bigger stronger than the other person, but it is a very low % technique on good people. RNC is as basic as it gets, yet no gi is very high % technique.
     
  10. number9dream

    number9dream Blue Belt

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    I would love to read this article, sadly the giant pop-up to get his free ebook is refusing to close (android phone).
     
  11. flapdragon

    flapdragon Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    thats interesting. the americana is one of my most frequent subs, and i always liked it because it seemed so simple and easy. you made me realize just now its only easy because i hit it primarily on white belts. guess its time to develop my armbars and bow and arrows.

    still i feel like if someone put as much work into americanas as ronda put into armbars theyd def hit it against the top guys in the world
     
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  12. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    no they wont, you really have to suck to be caught in one, or be dead tired and not be able to defend anymore, or may be the guy on top of you is just too strong and has too much size and strenght on you and he can muscle you to the position, but under regular circumstances, americanas are really really low% moves.
     
  13. rmongler

    rmongler Black Belt

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    If Ronda had spent the time she did on armbars on rAre kimoras dwl etc. instead, she would have beat Holly Holm.

    I'm not even joking
     
  14. mattemate

    mattemate Brown Belt

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    If Roger competes again in ADCC he should make it a point to treat the calf slicer like his new cross collar choke from mount, and calf slice every single opponent. Who thinks a focused Roger could do it?
     
  15. mattemate

    mattemate Brown Belt

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    I remember, though, someone on here talking about Rickson working with him on Americanas and really taking it up to the next level. If you're really, really good at setting up and holding positions for Americanas, an elbow is an elbow, and it ought to work.
     
  16. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    This...it's also how you look the the techniques too..for example, a basic half Nelson and wrist in wrestling and a basic Kimura finish are both basic/white belt moves..that you rarely see in high level competition..now they're not "bad" technique..just hate to get on elite guys

    But when you look at a half Nelson or kimura as a "position" and a type of control to set up other things. With A Kimura- armbars, back takes, arm triangles eyc. Half- Nelson- crab ride, legs, bar and half etc...

    "Muscle moves" like Americanas, not nearly as versitile or usable after white belt
     
  17. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    SImple BJJ = good. Low % BJJ = bad. Tricks don't win you shit in the long run. Bread and butter does.
     
  18. Darwinambrosius

    Darwinambrosius Thought you had a friend, boy?

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    What would be some more examples other than the Americana? The author says he'll discuss them but doesn't.
     
  19. RJ Green

    RJ Green Black Belt

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    [​IMG]

    too bad you can't americana someone from this position...
     
  20. Bear Knuckles

    Bear Knuckles Brown Belt

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    Not sure I entirely agree with Kesting here. On either the Americana or the Calf Slicer. True, defending the Americana is simple, but how many people try to develop their Americana abilities to the point of mastery? Nobody that I know of.

    And, the Calf Slicer is fucking brutal. Just watch Youtube Sean Roberts doing calf slicers and see how many people he catches with it.
     

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