Dominant Decision wins >> flash Finishes

[Mikeydontgiva]

Not that dictionaries are the be-all-end-all for word definitions, but the very first definition Google brings up is:

fluke
/flo͞ok/
Noun
Unlikely chance occurrence, esp. a surprising piece of luck: "their triumph was no fluke".

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fluke gives us:



from The American Heritage

 

[correaman13]

That's not at all what people are saying.
They are saying that a full 5 round fight gives a more accurate view of who is the better figther than a flash knockout.

The first fight showed us that JDS has knock-out power (which we already knew).

The second fight showed us that:
Cain has better stand-up when JDS is worried about take-downs
Cain can take down JDS over and over again once JDS gets a little tired
Cain has way better cardio
JDS doesn't have much of a ground game

You can't say that JDS would win most of the times based on the first fight.
You can definitely say that Cain would win most of he times based on the second fight.

If they fought 10 times I would have it something like:

5 times Cain via decision
3 times Cain via tko/ko
2 times JDS via tko/ko

One of those JDS ko's just happend to occur the first time they fought.

oh ok

 

[JT29]

A dominant decision win is easily more impressive than a flash finish

 

[Callisto]

So, are people saying now that GSP is a better fighter than Anderson Silva? Because Silva finishes people, but GSP has more dominant 5 round UD's?

Hey, I am a huge GSP fan. He is my favorite fighter. Not a Silva fan. I usually root against him in fights. I think GSP's dominant performances show he is an amazing dominant fighter. But I have to pick Silva as the better fighter overall, because he gets more finishes.

I hope the people making this argument for dominant decisions reigning supreme speak up in support of GSP if GSP gets another decision against Diaz. Be consistant.

 

[mike00]

you have to agree because even though Cain got flash KO'd, he recieved a rematch after one win. I think its gonna be hard to sell a 3rd fight after JDS getting steamrolled like that

Because JDS isn't Mexican. I'm certain JDS would take a rematch as soon as possible, but Dana won't give it to him. Dana made it obvious he wants to bring the UFC to Mexico and he wants Cain to be champion and fight there

 

[ninjion]

Dominant Finish >>> Dominant Decision >>> Flash Finish.

I don't think it's that simple. Not everything is black and white.

Each fight has to be gauged individually based on the fighters' performances and not some criteria based solely on the method of victory. Some early finishes are more impressive than others and same with dominant decisions.

For example, Silva vs Leben and Silva vs Forrest were early finishes in which one fighter was CLEARLY dominant and outmatched his opponent. On the other hand Silva vs Belfort was a flash strike out of nowhere that doesn't really say anything bad about the loser except that he got caught with an unexpected kick. There are certainly more grounds for Belfort getting a rematch with the spider than Forrest or Leben.

The same with decisions. Fights like GSP vs Fitch and Sonnen vs Okami were dominant decisions in which one fighter was clearly outmatched. A fight like Sonnen vs Bisping could be scored 30-27 and yet we all know it was a close, hard fought battle.

 

[bandicoot]

You could also make the argument that while one punch for Junior defeated Cain, one punch from Cain also defeated Junior. Junior was doing quite well in the first half of the first round (you may have had to mute Joe Rogan to see that) by stuffing take downs and landing solid jabs. Cain was flying around flopping on the floor, but when Cain landing that big overhand right, the fight was basically over. Junior never fully recovered. So, one could argue that a single punch won both fights.

Very good analysis, though after thinking about it, I think Cain was trying to get Junior to put his hands down, expecting to stuff a td again.

 

[BobbyTKD]

Actually any finish is better than any decision. After being dominated for five rounds, the loser can still fight. After being finished (whether KO'd or submitted), the loser is out of the fight, helpless if you like.

If you've competed yourself you know this, or if not, talk to anyone who has. Its always better to lose in the eyes of the judges than to be taken completely out of the fight.

Or put it this way - if they had let JDS beat on Cain after the KO, he could have been even more dominating for the last four rounds, beating on an unconscious opponent.

Well said. Funny how some people have a hard time grasping this. They should think about a life and death situation; would they rather dominate the opponent for a long time, but never finish (thereby always risking death) or put the opponent out with a flash, ensuring survival right then and there?

 

[emax]

You need to be able to have both dominant decisions and flash finishes to get the fight community behind you. It seems pointless to argue which one is more important - if fighters only win by one method, fight communities tend to turn on them really quick. That is why I worry when guys like Bendo only win by dominant decisions - I am a major Bendo fan unconditionally but I worry about how the MMA community and many of its self righteous members have a tendency to immediately turn on guys who win fights like that. For God's sake, look at the backlash GSP has gotten despite having now established himself as most likely still the #2 pound for pound fighter in MMA and possible the second best MMA fighter in the sport's 25 year history.

 

[BobbyTKD]

For me at least, JDS got hurt by that right hand in the first round, and although he managed to recover enough to continue, he was never the same after taking that shot. Both fights were decided early by a good punch. Cain's lights went out, but JDS managed to take punishment for another 20 minutes. I dont see how either one proves any more (or any less) than the other.

If anything it proves the opposite of what this thread implies; it's better to finish the fight as early as possible.

 

[Saskatoonmike**]

Both fights were basically decided by one punch.

JDS could have dominated Cain for 25 minutes in the first fight if the ref let him.

You have no point.

I have a strong point. just because you do not comprehend it does not mean I don't.

As i stated later, ignore the second JDS/Cain fight if the potential of Cain rocking JDS is confusing the topic.

the question is about generalities.



Fighter1 and 2 are considered two of the top guys in a division. they fight for a first time and...

- fighter 1 steps out and catches fighter 2 and instantly Ko's him winning via finish

or

- they fight and fighter2 beats the crap out of fighter 1 for 5 rounds winning a dominant decision with many 10-8 rounds.

Which is the win that tells you more about how these fighters matchup? Which leaves less questions about who is better? Which one makes you more confident in a rematch about repeatability?

A dominant decision is almost way more informative as to who is the better fighter then a quick flash finish.

 

[TheComebackKid]

It depends, does one guy consistently ko his competition in a 'flashy' manner or was it a one time thing?

I think its safe to say JDS's finishing Cain was not a fluke but rather the norm. Its what JDS is good at.

 

[LongTermLurker]

We get it GSP is great.

More on topic: I agree as some have stated, a win is a win.

 

[Saskatoonmike**]

It depends, does one guy consistently ko his competition in a 'flashy' manner or was it a one time thing?

I think its safe to say JDS's finishing Cain was not a fluke but rather the norm. Its what JDS is good at.

it is what JDS is good at and how we expect him to win when he wins. it is also what Guillard is good at and how we expect him to win when he wins.

the difference between the two is JDS is a much better fighter and thus it is more repeatable and predictable with him.

but that is the over hanging question. how repeatable and predictable is a quick KO ever?

if JDS had beat Cain the first time by dominant decision with a few 10-8 rounds then I think few would have given Cain any chance this second fight. but since it was a quick ko many thought Cain could not only do better but win. we had all sorts of angry posters acting as if doubting a a quick ko was wrong and getting pissy that many rightly questioned its repeatability but at least for now i think most are silenced. well at least until the next quick ko.

 

[tenniswhiz]

I have a strong point. just because you do not comprehend it does not mean I don't.

As i stated later, ignore the second JDS/Cain fight if the potential of Cain rocking JDS is confusing the topic.

the question is about generalities.



Fighter1 and 2 are considered two of the top guys in a division. they fight for a first time and...

- fighter 1 steps out and catches fighter 2 and instantly Ko's him winning via finish

or

- they fight and fighter2 beats the crap out of fighter 1 for 5 rounds winning a dominant decision with many 10-8 rounds.

Which is the win that tells you more about how these fighters matchup? Which leaves less questions about who is better? Which one makes you more confident in a rematch about repeatability?

A dominant decision is almost way more informative as to who is the better fighter then a quick flash finish.

Damn, you still don't understand.
You're not that bright, are you?

5 rounds, blah, blah, blah.... the punch in the first round followed by some vicious bombs when JDS was on all fours. That is what made the next 4 rounds what they were.
Get it through your thick head.

If Cain didn't hurt JDS so badly in the 1st, and won each round from scratch, then ok, your point is ok.
But that's not what happened.

 

[Ronnie Dunavin]

I couldn't agree more. You don't learn anything from a flash finish.

Ever hear of Mike Tyson?

 

[dieknowsore]

not everything is about "learning something" and "dominating" your opponent. A decision victory is never better than a submission or knock out.

 

[Destroid]

It tells us that the winner couldn't finish the fight in 15/25 minutes and who knows what might happen if the fight went 5 more.

 

[TheComebackKid]

it is what JDS is good at and how we expect him to win when he wins. it is also what Guillard is good at and how we expect him to win when he wins.

the difference between the two is JDS is a much better fighter and thus it is more repeatable and predictable with him.

but that is the over hanging question. how repeatable and predictable is a quick KO ever?

if JDS had beat Cain the first time by dominant decision with a few 10-8 rounds then I think few would have given Cain any chance this second fight. but since it was a quick ko many thought Cain could not only do better but win. we had all sorts of angry posters acting as if doubting a a quick ko was wrong and getting pissy that many rightly questioned its repeatability but at least for now i think most are silenced. well at least until the next quick ko.

It is very repeatable. Even in this fight he was catching Cain quite a bit at first. Anyone of those could easily hit the right spot. I'm not saying it will happen but its not far fetched at all.

 

[dieknowsore]

It tells us that the winner couldn't finish the fight in 15/25 minutes and who knows what might happen if the fight went 5 more.

this, if the ref let JDS keep hitting cain for 1 more minute he would be dead