Dollar Per Dollar, Who is Rebney Kidding?

[mrpvivian]

Also makes you wonder if/how they would take sponsorship into account. I mean you could easily argue the fact that UFC has 3 people with Nike sponsorships (2 worldwide, not sure about JDS) and no other org has that. Which in turn proves a point that fighting in the UFC offers a higher percentage chance to get a lucrative sponsorship deal, which equals more money.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

And Eddie having no choice in the matter is the messed up part. Does he want equal guarantee with no chance of more. Or the same guarantee with a chance for much more?

right. life and law is not fair.

like i said, UFC could have offered $1m/$1m and no bonus instead of $200k/$200k and opportunity for $3m in bonuses. but both Eddie and UFC chose not to. (EDIT: if you don't like those #'s, feel free to insert others; no need to ignore my main point just to nitpick the #'s i chose)

someone will claim i am "blaming" UFC. no, i'm not. i'm not blaming anyone. i'm simply looking at all the angles from all the individual perspectives. each party is doing what they feel they need to, and power to em. but all parties DID have opportunities to make different choices along the way.

so now we go to the courts, and the lawyers win. whoop de doo.

 

[Natman2939]

the grossest thing is that rebney claims to have matched the ppv because "bellator will get into ppv soon with the right fight"

as if bellator's first few ppvs EVER could possibly hope to match what the ESTABLISHED PPV POWERHOUSE UFC could do

 

[SODACKER]

right. life and law is not fair.

like i said, UFC could have offered $1m/$1m and no bonus instead of $200k/$200k and opportunity for $3m in bonuses. but both Eddie and UFC chose not to. (EDIT: if you don't like those #'s, feel free to insert others; no need to ignore my main point just to nitpick the #'s i chose)

someone will claim i am "blaming" UFC. no, i'm not. i'm not blaming anyone. i'm simply looking at all the angles from all the individual perspectives. each party is doing what they feel they need to, and power to em. but all parties DID have opportunities to make different choices along the way.

so now we go to the courts, and the lawyers win. whoop de doo.

Hey I get it but the ufc is big into performance based contracts which is good. Eddie is not a huge name and coming in off a recent loss so it's a flier paying him so much. Performance based contracts are perfect in his case.

It hurts him and the ufc though that he's getting handcuffed by this. If he believes he's the best he can get paid like it in the ufc. In Bellator its not the case.

1 year long matching where he can't earn money seems excessive

 

[Lead]

Bellator is fucked in this lawsuit. They have to know it. I think they just want to prolong Alverez's UFC debut/

 

[tbaumann]

Also makes you wonder if/how they would take sponsorship into account. I mean you could easily argue the fact that UFC has 3 people with Nike sponsorships (2 worldwide, not sure about JDS) and no other org has that. Which in turn proves a point that fighting in the UFC offers a higher percentage chance to get a lucrative sponsorship deal, which equals more money.

I'm surprised that more people are not talking about sponsorship. Havent a bunch of fighters come forward and said they make as much or more with sponsors as they do with thier show money?

 

[SeattleFightFan]

I'm surprised that more people are not talking about sponsorship. Havent a bunch of fighters come forward and said they make as much or more with sponsors as they do with thier show money?

all of this, including potential sponsor $, has been discussed many times. here's one, see post 3:

let's say UFC presents him with an offer for $80k/$80k with not fully guaranteed but almost practically guaranteed bonuses of $40k with a chance to win $80k in bonuses (FOTN, SOTN) and the opportunity to earn up to $100k in sponsor money if his agent gets it done. and Bellator offers him $200k/$200k.

which is the highest bidder?​

much of this pretty much went down like alot of us expected.

(EDIT: i see now i left out ppv $. oops)

 

[Bollman]

So, does the language in Eddies existing contract obligate him to resign with Bellator if their match is fundamentally the same as he UFC's?

Why can't he just say "thanks, but no thanks" to Bjorn when he made his "matching" offer?

 

[LUDELOW]

its a scam from bella, for exposing UFC's real PPV numbers

 

[ODYSSEYMEMPHIS]

It'll be interesting how this all plays out. Especially since I'm interested to hear how the ppv percentage talk plays out in the contract where Bellator has the option to match offers by competition. And since Bellator isn't on ppv and it's a shot in the dark how many buys Alvarez can do is tricky. HOw can they even try to match an offer when there isnt a way of knowing that. I'm sure there's details I don't know but I hope this works out for Eddie. It'd be a shame to see him sidelined for a year. I wonder how this will hurt Bellator in acquiring talent

 

[TFanatic]

So, does the language in Eddies existing contract obligate him to resign with Bellator if their match is fundamentally the same as he UFC's?

Why can't he just say "thanks, but no thanks" to Bjorn when he made his "matching" offer?

It's in his contract that if Bellator matches and he still doesn't want to stay, he has to sit out until the matching clause expires.

That's what the deal with whether or not Bellator's deal truly matches.

 

[Alpinestar]

I don't think Bellator hands out after fight bonuses either, at least not like the UFC does.

 

[method115]

TS seems to have missed the most important paragraph:

"There is no guaranteed pay-per-view in the UFC offer to Eddie Alvarez," he says emphatically. "We as Bellator don't have to match projections. We don't have to match what could conceptually happen. We have to match guaranteed dollars and what the UFC contractually guaranteed would occur. That is what we are held to."

you don't have to like it, but you should at least attempt to understand it.

While this might be true that doesn't mean its legal to do that. A judge could rule still rule in Eddies favor. People seem to think just because it's in a contract and you signed then it's legal. That's not the way it works.

 

[CagedAnimal]

I think he's doing a great job. He knows the UFC will suck out the talent no matter what. And he knows that they're not going to work out any kind of feeder program with him, where they in some small way work with his show or co-promote it. They wouldn't do it with the WEC or strikeforce. They won't do it with Bellator.

What he's doing is driving up the price. He's putting everything on the table he can afford and then the UFC will beat that offer or match it, forcing them to overpay for fighters. He's done it in a big way twice now. He knows losing fighters is inevitable. But you can guarantee he's costing the UFC a lot of money. Not only that, a lot of good fighters will try and sign with Bellator first now and fight lesser competition so they can possibly build their name up and then go sign for big bucks with the UFC, which is a much smarter strategy than just jumping right in with the UFC for 10k a fight or so(if you win).

So again, he knows he can't work with the UFC. He knows he will lose fighters to the UFC no matter what. So he's costing the UFC a shitload of money while also making his MMA brand much more attractive to up and coming talents. Sounds like he knows exactly what he's doing.

 

[seeyouaunty]

I'm surprised that more people are not talking about sponsorship. Havent a bunch of fighters come forward and said they make as much or more with sponsors as they do with thier show money?

Don't forget that the UFC takes a cut of fighter sponsorship money. Anyone remember how much the cut is? I recall it being a large sum.

 

[0vary hugger**]

Bellator is fucked in this lawsuit. They have to know it. I think they just want to prolong Alverez's UFC debut/

Bellator is nasty man.

 

[KeeSmyth]

TS seems to have missed the most important paragraph:

"There is no guaranteed pay-per-view in the UFC offer to Eddie Alvarez," he says emphatically. "We as Bellator don't have to match projections. We don't have to match what could conceptually happen. We have to match guaranteed dollars and what the UFC contractually guaranteed would occur. That is what we are held to."

you don't have to like it, but you should at least attempt to understand it.

agreed, Eddie wants money that he could possibly get but is not written into the contract

 

[jodka]

Don't forget that the UFC takes a cut of fighter sponsorship money. Anyone remember how much the cut is? I recall it being a large sum.

No they don't. They take a fee from all sponsors for them to become a UFC sponsor. That gives them the right to sponsor whoever they want in the UFC and that fighter can then rep that clothing line or product during events.

If then Pat Barry (for example) signs a $10k sponsorship, the UFC doesn't take any of that. (Though his manager gets 10%).

 

[seeyouaunty]

No they don't. They take a fee from all sponsors for them to become a UFC sponsor. That gives them the right to sponsor whoever they want in the UFC and that fighter can then rep that clothing line or product during events.

If then Pat Barry (for example) signs a $10k sponsorship, the UFC doesn't take any of that. (Though his manager gets 10%).

Its all good if a fighter has sponsors that are already on the list, but if a prospect comes in from a different org with local sponsors that are not in the UFC's list it is a completely different story.

I've heard the sponsors fee is $50,000 annually. Not a small sum.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

TS seems to have missed the most important paragraph:

"There is no guaranteed pay-per-view in the UFC offer to Eddie Alvarez," he says emphatically. "We as Bellator don't have to match projections. We don't have to match what could conceptually happen. We have to match guaranteed dollars and what the UFC contractually guaranteed would occur. That is what we are held to."

you don't have to like it, but you should at least attempt to understand it.

Letter of the law this may stand, but common sense tells anyone that this isn't a "match". A possibility for a set percentage of revenue from a PPV that could do half a million buys is unarguably better than the possibility for a set percentage of a PPV that would do a fraction of the buys in an organization where PPV does not currently exist. I don't know if this comes down to a ruling on whether the wording was matched or whether the estimate of salary was matched, because if it's the latter, then there's no question the answer is no.