Does USADA even test for plastic?

[NoBiasJustMMA]

This whole IV situation got me wondering if USADA even tests for plastic as that is how you test if someone has used an IV.

USADA says IVs are allowed but the Western Australian Athletic commission says IVs are banned and the rules of the athletic comission trumps USADA but they don't do the urine and blood testing USADA does but if they allow IVs would they even test for plastic to see if someone used an IV in the first place?

This feels like it might be a major loophole.

Edit: just looked at the USADA website and it looks like they do not test for plastic. You can check the PDF on USADA's website for what substances they test for. I searched it for plastic and IV and nothing popped up so it seems they don't test to see if fighters have used an IV.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

According to reddit, Joe Rogan says some fighters use animal skin instead of plastic.

7 yr. ago
I heard on Rogan podcast that people are using tubes made out of animal skin​

We have lots of Roganites around here, I bet someone can confirm.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

According to reddit, Joe Rogan says some fighters use animal skin instead of plastic.

7 yr. ago
I heard on Rogan podcast that people are using tubes made out of animal skin​

We have lots of Roganites around here, I bet someone can confirm.

I think the wording there is pretty important, they can test for it but it seems like they don't in general based off the info on the USADA website.

 

[Yep]

There’s a joke here but it would get deleted

 

[markg171]

They should be checking harder for dilution / saturation levels of your samples.

If you're going to set a limit of 100ml / 12 hours for IVs, which is USADA's limits, you should know what a blood and urine sample looks like that's from a body that's had too much of an IV solution. Otherwise it's meaningless as short of an admission of guilt or physical/visual proof they can't tell. Go over the sanctions, that's how they're caught. Not by testing.

That or scrape the IV ban entirely and simply become better at detecting the OTHER things hidden in your sample as the real reason IVs are banned isn't for rehydration purposes but for potentially masking other banned substances. They don't give a fuck about how the IV might've helped you cut extra weight knowing you can rehydrate better afterwards. They care if it helped dilute anything else in your sample to avoid THAT being detected. Which excessive Pedialyte does too but that's not banned.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

They should be checking harder for dilution / saturation levels of your samples.

If you're going to set a limit of 100ml / 12 hours for IVs, which is USADA's limits, you should know what a blood and urine sample looks like that's from a body that's had too much of an IV solution. Otherwise it's meaningless as short of an admission of guilt or physical/visual proof they can't tell. Go over the sanctions, that's how they're caught. Not by testing.

That or scrape the IV ban entirely and simply become better at detecting the OTHER things hidden in your sample as the real reason IVs are banned isn't for rehydration purposes but for potentially masking other banned substances. They don't give a fuck about how the IV might've helped you cut extra weight knowing you can rehydrate better afterwards. They care if it helped dilute anything else in your sample to avoid THAT being detected. Which excessive Pedialyte does too.

USADA's rules regarding IVs are superceded by the athletic comission and IVs are banned by the western Australia comission but USADA doesn't do tests to find out if someone used an IV. It's a loop hope that needs to be fixed. If a comission has more stringent rules USADA should test for what the comission bans as well but they don't.

 

[markg171]

USADA's rules regarding IVs are superceded by the athletic comission and IVs are banned by the western Australia comission but USADA doesn't do tests to find out if someone used an IV. It's a loop hope that needs to be fixed. If a comission has more stringent rules USADA should test for what the comission bans as well but they don't.

Yeah, they need to figure out their jurisdictional issues.

Reminds me of Jones' pulsing where USADA said it was fine according to their research and NSAC said they wanted to do their own investigation first before licencing him (which eventually cleared Jones too for his next couple of fights) meanwhile CSAC simply said they accept USADA's decision. Which is what most commissions do rather than uphold their standards as somebody else taking care of it saves them money.

Yet at the end of the day it's the commissions with any legal authority. USADA is a volunteer program. I mean, really it's more like "voluntold" as you have no choice as a UFC fighter as it's part of your contract, but at the end of the day they don't have any authority. If the commission says one thing and USADA says the other they should follow the commission.

 

[RampageFaction]

What I’ve learned from TJ’s case is they don’t test for EVERYTHING. We only found out about paulo’s IV because of a rat. It boils down to money. When there’s a suspicion, they can and do. But there are still substances with detection times short enough to beat the system.
IV use doesn’t bother me. What little research that has done shows that there are no advantages to rehydrating with an IV vs orally. When the whole IV ban went down, I remember reading an article where an MMA trainer said IVs are psychological. Fighters think they work better but they really don’t.

 

[Thawing Mammoth]

Wonder what the baseline is for a western country since they're finding plastic in the bloodstream of perfectly healthy randomly chosen babies now

 

[Leinster Rugby]

So that's how Paig Van Zant managed to get her tits into the octagon.




Sorry.

 

[ToTheMax]

No they don't.

 

[RampageFaction]

According to reddit, Joe Rogan says some fighters use animal skin instead of plastic.

7 yr. ago
I heard on Rogan podcast that people are using tubes made out of animal skin​

We have lots of Roganites around here, I bet someone can confirm.

Animal skins never made much sense to me when I heard it on Rogan. Glass makes way more sense since it can be sterilized.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Animal skins never made much sense to me when I heard it on Rogan. Glass makes way more sense since it can be sterilized.

Thank you for confirming.

Like usual a simple search (e.g. "does USADA test for plastics") led me down a self induced rabbit hole of stupidity (e.g. "did Rogan really say some people use animal skins for IVs?!?")

 

[markys00]

Thank you for confirming.

Like usual a simple search (e.g. "does USADA test for plastics") led me down a self induced rabbit hole of stupidity (e.g. "did Rogan really say some people use animal skins for IVs?!?")

Honestly, would it be that weird? We use animal products in a ton of different things. Leather is an animal skin

 

[avenue94]

If I recall, a lot of doping control groups don't test for plastics anymore cuz of natural contamination. But @dimspace is your resource here if he's still around.

If you're going to set a limit of 100ml / 12 hours for IVs, which is USADA's limits, you should know what a blood and urine sample looks like that's from a body that's had too much of an IV solution.

Is this even possible form a testing or medical standpoint? It sounds impossible.

 

[Van Daz]

There’s a joke here but it would get deleted

Paul Daley would be pinged for plastics

 

[Van Daz]

So that's how Paig Van Zant managed to get her tits into the octagon.




Sorry.

They'd have to test her at.......

 

[AmonTobin]

Plastic softener (not actual plastic) agents are found in most if not all plastic wrapped products and foods and fluids you ingest.
The agents are metabolized quickly into a variety of metabolites that you pee out.
The same agents are found plastic medical products like IV bags, IV tubing, Syringes. But because plastic is so integrated into are everyday consumer life, you can never conclusively prove someone took IV fluids without literally witnessing them do it.

Honestly, USADA would be more effective paying staff to supervise fighters between weigh-in and fight, than trying to test for IVF use.

 

[markg171]

If I recall, a lot of doping control groups don't test for plastics anymore cuz of natural contamination. But @dimspace is your resource here if he's still around.

Is this even possible form a testing or medical standpoint? It sounds impossible.

I mean, an IV is just injecting high doses of saline, vitamins, sugar, electrolytes, etc. directly into your body. We can test for all of those things.

If someone hands you a sample with 100x potassium levels or whatever flag him and investigate how he got that much into his body in under 24 hours. Don't think it would be all that hard. Perhaps tricky to prove as unlike PEDs you do consume these things naturally, but we already can test for these things so just need to figure out what an excessive threshold is that would cause a flag of potential excessive IV usage that couldn't reasonably have come from food. Pedialyte only has so much potassium.

That or just take over the IV process themselves. That way you can monitor the athletes usage instead of I guess the current trust based system? Plus you'd know exactly what's the IV ingredient and dosage wise. Again, making it easier to test. If someone's sample comes back with something you know wasn't in your IVs or way over what was then they took an outside one. Or you could even put tracers in yours that you could test for and if they've disappeared by the next test you could reasonably assume the athlete must've done something to flush that out faster than it should've. Which you could flag as either IV or diuretic.

Another thing I just thought of is that you could simply take all blood samples from the same source and photo document exactly where the needle mark was. People noticed Islam's needle mark and his team claimed it was from the blood test and not an IV. That could be verified if we knew where the samples actually came from as for all we know he was tested on his opposite arm and so did indeed do something else with that arm. Do needle mark checks. Athletes would try and inject themselves in the same place to avoid multiple needle marks but that's likely to cause bruising and injure their arms so there's at least some disincentive for the athlete.

Certainly a lot they could do other than right now's system which apparently is just trust and outside evidence based. They "caught" BJ by him saying he'd taken one and Paulo by there being a video of it lol.

 

[AmonTobin]

Edit: just looked at the USADA website and it looks like they do not test for plastic. You can check the PDF on USADA's website for what substances they test for. I searched it for plastic and IV and nothing popped up so it seems they don't test to see if fighters have used an IV.

Guess what most USADA testing containers are made of? Plastic.