Does the success of Junior prove a boxer with TDD would be baddest man on the planet?

The above said a truly elite boxer with TDD would do very well...with just those two their will always be someone with the right skill set to beat him IMO
 
We mock boxing far too readily.

Every other success from a different art, are elite in that art.

Doesnt matter how you cut it, in kickboxing and boxing, JDS is an unknown.

His BJJ is accredited, but unproven in any MMA or BJJ sense.

His wrestling is basically MMA Wrestling, but its not really that impressive.

HW is the baddest man on the planet division, and the reality is, you could take any boxer in the top 100, add TDD training from 22 years old, and youd have a problem with your hyperbole.

I think Cain wins tonight. Thats why im dropping this now. But tis brainfood fo sure, that JDS goes so far on an art, he isnt anywhere near elite at in a pure context.

I guess GSP is similar, and MMA is a different game when you mix in the threat of the TD. Different people will handle that different and will mix it up different when you throw in the attacks, but yeh, food for thought.



I went too far saying his kicks were non existent. I doubt many will debate the central point though.

We could use Rampage then or even Chuck as both pretty much became puncher boxers late in their prime runs.

Yes both used their wrestling backgrounds for the tdd but Crocop developed great tdd without that background. It does not matter how you develop tdd, just that you have it and can force the fight standing.

The fact is if you can keep the fight standing and force a striking war and you have even decent striking you will likely be a force in MMA as so few can counter a good striking game when forced to.
 
No more bad ass than a wrestler with great hands.

I don't think we have ever seen a 'wrestler with great hands'. I mean, yes great compared to their MMA peers when they can keep it standing. I guess Chuck and Rampage would qualify as solid hands. But 'great hands'? By what standards?
 
I don't think we have ever seen a 'wrestler with great hands'. I mean, yes great compared to their MMA peers when they can keep it standing. I guess Chuck and Rampage would qualify as solid hands. But 'great hands'? By what standards?

Weidman is no boxer, but hes a very good student of the game.

Counter punching like that dont grow on trees either.
 
The above said a truly elite boxer with TDD would do very well...with just those two their will always be someone with the right skill set to beat him IMO

Agreed.

Perfect foil would be someone like Aldo with serious low kicks or Pettis with diverse punches and kicks.

No guarantees on who would win but stylistically the more diverse striker would have more tools to win. But the top boxers coming in would be at a much higher athletic level overall to counter that.
 
It depends on the type of boxer you are.

If you have an Jack Dempsey/MikeTyson style with intense offense then yea, combining that with excellent TDD is extremely deadly.
But having a defensive style doesn't work out as well because an aggressive wrestler and win based on octagon control.
 
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Werdum's take downs are piss poor. Give him the take downs of a GSP or Cain and he probably becomes a dominant champion.

But that's the problem with your entire premise. What do you mean by having 'TDD'? You can have really good take down defense and still get taken down once in a while. If getting taken down means you're staying down and getting subbed inside 20 seconds then, guess what? 'Really good' TDD isn't gonna cut it. Likewise, even if you have great take down defense, that doesn't mean you don't have to put some effort into it. You can't stand like a boxer and throw like a boxer and still defend take downs like a wrestler.

You act like you've come upon some great discovery. We've always known that if you can dictate where the fight happens (with take downs and/or by defending take downs) you can get away with being strong in just one area. It didn't take JDS to show us that. Chuck proved that a long time ago... about a decade after Royce already proved it.

But nothing beats being like GSP. If you can compete with him standing, he's likely a lot better than you on the mat. If you can compete with him grappling, he's likely a lot better than you standing. If he wants it standing, he can defend the take down. If he wants it on the mat he can get the take down. And if, by chance, it ends up going where he doesn't want it to go, odds are he can beat you there, too... or at least hold his own until he gets it back where he wants it, which won't take him very long.
 
Its the fighter not as much the style. If Big Nog was trained exactly as JDS has been, he still wouldn't have the same success. Style by body type. If you find the rivht match rhen you could be a force in mma.
 
He clobbered Hunt with a pretty nice kick and I think I remember him throwing a few kicks that fight so he might start diversifying his striking in future bouts
 
St-Pierre, Cain, Jones, Weidman have only to defend against strikes in a stand up fight. But your type of fighter has to defend against takedowns and strikes at the same time. So even a great boxer can get ko or kd by a wrestler. See Silva Weidman or Cain JDS 2.
 
I think so.....if he can keep the fight standing then for sure. But thats not easy to do at all times.
 
In offensive well rounded MMA he is a puncher. His kicks are non existant, and he hasnt submitted anyone in the last half decade..

his kicks are there he just chooses not to use them often. he has a lot of power behind them too. just look at the kick he used against mark hunt to knock him out. kind of random but there's also a video of JDS where he successfully replicates Pettis's off the cage kick. his kicks definitely exist but for some reason he chooses to keep them a small part of his striking game, perhaps to avoid the takedown. maybe this is why his TDD is so good.
 
St-Pierre, Cain, Jones, Weidman have only to defend against strikes in a stand up fight. But your type of fighter has to defend against takedowns and strikes at the same time. So even a great boxer can get ko or kd by a wrestler. See Silva Weidman or Cain JDS 2.

HW is a different game.

One punch works better at HW.

Time and space get distorted beyond 205, like something out of TNG. One punch + TDD really is a winning formula. Id have liked to have seen Lesnar v JDS though.
 
St-Pierre, Cain, Jones, Weidman have only to defend against strikes in a stand up fight. But your type of fighter has to defend against takedowns and strikes at the same time. So even a great boxer can get ko or kd by a wrestler. See Silva Weidman or Cain JDS 2.

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This is exactly why the striking rules need to be changed. If you can knee or kick grounded opponents then the fighters you mentioned would have have more to worry about and the strikers would have another dimension to sharpen.

The fact that the average TDD of strikers has risen dramatically only makes it all the more reason to allow grounded strikes.

Back in the day, most fighters would either get taken down or not. There was rarely any in between. But in the present, there is a huge amount of in between and so many situations that could be taken advantage of.
 
Boxing isn't enough in a sport where you can knee your opponent in the face or knock him out with a spinning heel kick
 
This is why I was pissed when JDS beat Cain and I'll be really pissed if he does it again, this is MMA, not boxing. I don't want to see a guy that pretty much just boxes be champ. If I wanted to see boxing, I'd watch that. He's a nice guy, but I hope he never takes the belt again and that no boxer ever does.
 
Boxing is a sport. Fists are a weapon. Hitting someone with your fists =/= boxing.

JDS has insane hand speed for a big man, good accuracy, and the ability to close distance quickly. That is a winning combination.
 
This is why I was pissed when JDS beat Cain and I'll be really pissed if he does it again, this is MMA, not boxing. I don't want to see a guy that pretty much just boxes be champ. If I wanted to see boxing, I'd watch that. He's a nice guy, but I hope he never takes the belt again and that no boxer ever does.

Seriously?
 
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