Does the success of Junior prove a boxer with TDD would be baddest man on the planet?

No, it just proves that boxing for MMA is a good skill to have. Cigano may love to box, but he has all the other skills and knows how to use them and mix it up.

I think he goes beyond a boxer with TD defense, at least for MMA he does.
 
Redhawks100 said:
The dynamics of boxing in MMA is different than pure boxing, IMO. Also, it isn't that easy to develop excellent TDD.
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the dynamics of MT, Kickboxing, Wrestling and BJJ in MMA are all different then in the pure sports. And agreed it not easy to develop excellent tdd but with a good sample size of fighters from any discipline we always see some succeed in doing so. If we are talking about some of the top athletic boxers we should expect a high percent to do so relative to what we have seen in the past.
 
Mma boxing is different. The boxer would have to switch up his style completely just for mma. I'd rather have someone like Tyron Spong than someone coming from boxing.
 
RemoWilliams1a said:
it would only take numbers.

If we get enough top boxers joining top camps and cross training a large percent should succeed.

Look at how few top kickboxers (ex. Crocop, Mo SMith, etc) have entered and made it despite relatively small numbers right to the top of MMA.

Heck look how many top brawlers with no training have made it to the top.
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There will be hardly any top boxers trying MMA, though. The money isn't there.
 
ethanfranklin said:
JDS isnt an elite boxer tho.

Besides, his wrestling is only good in MMA TDD.

He has a black belt under Nog, so theres that...

Fedor, Cro Cop, Werdum, Maia, are all far better in their chosen poisons.
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Your point?
 
ocfightfan said:
No, it just proves that boxing for MMA is a good skill to have. Cigano may love to box, but he has all the other skills and knows how to use them and mix it up.

I think he goes beyond a boxer with TD defense, at least for MMA he does.
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Whether it is brawler, a kick boxer or a wrestler with heavy hands, what we have seen is that if the fighter has the tdd to keep a fight standing and he then has even reasonable standup, he is likely to be a force within MMA.

The reason being is that overall the level of standup in MMA is still very low and so anyone even capable who can dictate the fight standing will have a huge advantage.
 
BJ Penn proved that already in 2004

note: BMOTP=P4P #1 too me, not HW champion
 
Jesse aM said:
Mma boxing is different. The boxer would have to switch up his style completely just for mma. I'd rather have someone like Tyron Spong than someone coming from boxing.
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Completely is an exaggeration. It would take augmentation, but the fundamental skills cross over. Of all the martial disciplines, boxing and muay-thai at the elite level are the least represented in MMA. The question of "how would they do" is worth posing.
 
ethanfranklin said:
I remember when it was all about the well roundedness.

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Lets say we scrap that argument and go elite boxer, plus enough time to fashion elite tdd and bjj defense.

Youd be looking at a better version of JDS.

Am i wrong?

Junior is hitting 30. His first MMA fight was 7 years ago.

He has a BJJ black belt, and they dont grow on trees. But essentially his game is hit and dont be taken down.

In pure boxing, he is nowhere.

In offensive well rounded MMA he is a puncher. His kicks are non existant, and he hasnt submitted anyone in the last half decade.

At the very least, Boxing or MMA Boxing, as represented by JDS is strong.
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uhhh, see front kick on Roy Nelson's face, and see absurd spinning wheel kick KO of durable Mark Hunt.
You do bring up a fairly good point though, but i think the fighters that successfully put everything together are the more successful. Cain puts it all together really well and it was evident in JDS-Cain 2. All that said, i do hope JDS takes it because i like him a bit better and always enjoy his fights.
 
Jon Velasquez said:
What is the point of this thread?
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We mock boxing far too readily.

Every other success from a different art, are elite in that art.

Doesnt matter how you cut it, in kickboxing and boxing, JDS is an unknown.

His BJJ is accredited, but unproven in any MMA or BJJ sense.

His wrestling is basically MMA Wrestling, but its not really that impressive.

HW is the baddest man on the planet division, and the reality is, you could take any boxer in the top 100, add TDD training from 22 years old, and youd have a problem with your hyperbole.

I think Cain wins tonight. Thats why im dropping this now. But tis brainfood fo sure, that JDS goes so far on an art, he isnt anywhere near elite at in a pure context.

I guess GSP is similar, and MMA is a different game when you mix in the threat of the TD. Different people will handle that different and will mix it up different when you throw in the attacks, but yeh, food for thought.

Bermenheimer said:
uhhh, see front kick on Roy Nelson's face, and see absurd spinning wheel kick KO of durable Mark Hunt.
You do bring up a fairly good point though, but i think the fighters that successfully put everything together are the more successful. Cain puts it all together really well and it was evident in JDS-Cain 2. All that said, i do hope JDS takes it because i like him a bit better and always enjoy his fights.
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I went too far saying his kicks were non existent. I doubt many will debate the central point though.
 
You can have great TDD and still get taken down and beat on. This is why I think a dominant and well-rounded grappler is the best (St-Pierre, Cain, Jones, Weidman).

If someone magically cannot ever be taken down, though, then he would be pretty tough.
 
No more bad ass than a wrestler with great hands.
 
no, you can't determine if JDS is an elite boxer unless he competed in pure boxing matches. You can't box the same in an MMA match so we really don't know how good his pure boxing is until we see him in a boxing match with a pure boxer, kind of how we got to see Reem in K1 or BJJ guys in the ADCC tournaments.

To me he is a mixed martial artist he started out with BJJ then learned to box and fell in love with that. I don't he uses everything he is capable of in the cage when challenged.
 
Jesse aM said:
Mma boxing is different. The boxer would have to switch up his style completely just for mma. I'd rather have someone like Tyron Spong than someone coming from boxing.
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MMA Kickboxing is different.

MMA MT is different.

MMA bjj is different.

Not sure why we need to keep repeating that.

If literally guys who brawl in pubs on weekends and are simply heavy fisted 'punchers' can join a good camp learn decent tdd and can make waves in this sport with that adaption then there simply is no reason to believe a top athletic boxer could not achieve more then Brett Rogers, the tire changing brawler from Costco could do, if they joined a good camp and dedicated themselves to cross training.
 
Okay so lets say he faces a world class Muay Thai fighter who has great BJJ also. The Muay Thai guy can keep distance and smash with kicks knowing the boxer with tdd won't try to take down. His hands would be good enough to trade but he would have advantage with kicks at a distance and if they get in real short distance elbows and knees.
Or as someone said a great wrestler with BJJ who COULD get even one TD per round, which is all it takes to sub or control once there.

You never know the skill sets of others you'll fight which is why it's best to be well rounded. The next generation that are training MMA from a young age will be phenomenal.
 
I thought Joe warren was the baddest man on the planet? But really you caould say this same thing about a lots of fights. Anderson and GSP are great at what they do but are not recognized outside the sport as being at the top of anything. Even Aldo or pettis or DJ or jones could be an example so whats the point?
 
HDKIKR said:
You never know the skill sets of others you'll fight which is why it's best to be well rounded. The next generation that are training MMA from a young age will be phenomenal.
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Theyve been saying that since the last generation, and yet Nog, Barnett, Mir, etc are all in the top of the sport range. Im damn sure Fedor would be too.

We have Cormier, Cain and JDS as the poster boys for that rhetoric, and only Cain really represents it.
 
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