Does Liddell overextend?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Matt Thornton, Dec 28, 2005.

  1. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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    Just something I noticed when studying fight clips of Chuck Liddell.

    It seems like, because he's trying to stay out of takedown range, he's trying to fight from a pretty big distance. But sometimes it seems like he reaches with his punches, leaning really far forward.

    Is this a problem? Studying wrestling, one of the main sciences I've learned is that your head and shoulders should never go past the vertical plane of your hips and knees. I've also seen this in a lot of good stand-up fighters. Once you do that, you've committed your weight too far forward, and you're off balance.

    It seems to me like once Chuck does this, he's overextending himself and putting too much weight on the front leg.

    I know Chuck really knows his stuff on the feet, so I'm thinking either there's no problem with what he's doing, or he's aware of it and does it intentionally. Which is it?
     
  2. Ayin

    Ayin Black Belt

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    He definately swings far out, because he is confident that he is swinging harder and better than his opponent, and also the he can succesfully stuff a takedown (or just get up). His confidence lets him go all out.
    Whether or not the strategy is sound? If I was uncomfortable on the ground or didn't think I knew how to defend a takedown, I would definately stay light on the feet in a straight line of balance without overextending, that might all be different if I had some wrestling skills though.
     
  3. tamburello

    tamburello Green Belt

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    Please don't use Chuck Liddell as a role model for your stand up game.Too bad all the guys who can throw a punch are either one weight class below (Anderson Silva, Rich Franklin, etc), or one weight class above (Mirko, Hunt, Fedor), or Chuck Liddell would have been mauled a long time ago.

    Oh wait, he was by Couture and Rampage who did nothing but throw simple, well-timed straight punches, which Liddell simply did not know how to deal with.
     
  4. Morgano

    Morgano Orange Belt

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    Because mma guys have to train for so many different areas (striking, ground work, defending takedowns, clinches, etc etc etc) they usually develop decent but never great punching. Someone with the ability to throw straight punches with good timing could definitely pick Chuck apart. I'm sure I'll get flammed for it, but, tis the truth, you see very few guys with hands anywhere near the level of their pro-boxing peers. If someone possessed such ability, they'd probably do well against Chuck, but might not ever make it up to his level, because they'd most likely get beat by a guy with a good takedowns and ground game. It's just impossible to be great at everything.
     
  5. The Gubbinz

    The Gubbinz Banned Banned

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    I think generalizing technique is overrated. Chuck does what is best for him. If you can maintain balance, or think the sacrifice of balance is worth it, go for it. If you aren't a Chuck at heart, or in body, I would not try it!
     
  6. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    If you're gonna post jealous bullshit like that, just go back to the MMA Forum.
     
  7. Thai Clinch

    Thai Clinch Green Belt

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    he throws big looping punches that ktfo ppl....its so fun to watch!!!
     
  8. blanko

    blanko Guest

    if there is one thing that chuck is NOT afraid of; that is being taken down. Heck even Randy had trouble keeping chuck down and tito couldn't take him down. If you notice chuck when he fights strikers he uses straight punches rather than looping hooks. Look at his last KO of randy, it was a straight cross. Chuch uses what he thinks are the right tools for the specific fight.
     
  9. Trudge

    Trudge Purple Belt

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    good stand up?
    have you seen his kickboxing record?
    he was the best in the U.S. at one stage in his career
     
  10. CowboyPete

    CowboyPete Green Belt

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    Regardless, he wasn't the best because of his stellar form. He was the best (and is one of the best in MMA) because of his power, tenacity and stone chin. His looping hooks probably make most boxing coaches cringe. He shouldn't be used as a model for your standup game because Chuck's the only guy in the world who's Chuck. His style works for him. Classical boxing/Thai punching form works better for most people.
     
  11. graedy

    graedy Brown Belt

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    I would say, that Chuck has a pretty solid standardstandupgame (what a word). But whenever he thinks its possible he uses his very unique style with the looping punches etc. Thats because he has an amazing Ko-power with those punches and they are hard to defend because they are so unorthodox.
    But this style works for Chuck because he knows how to use it, has a great chin (even if someone who doesnt have the Ko-power counters him with two straights while his punch is coming arround, Chuck wont get down but the other guy probably will ones the looping punch connects) and him not being afraid of the takedown.
    Many Mma-fighters often use a pretty unorhtodox standupstyle but most them have a solid base they can switch to if needed.
     
  12. blanko

    blanko Guest

    IIRC chuck used a straight to KO vernon white and used straights against Vitor also. Chuck uses what he thinks he can use.
     
  13. DKM76

    DKM76 Guest

    it's pretty safe to say that Chuck knows what he's doing and he doesn't need the advice of people posting here.
     
  14. eljamaiquino

    eljamaiquino Blue Belt

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    He definitely looks off balance like that. It works against guys who do leg attacks (singles,doubles, etc), simply because his hips are so far away from his fists that he has more time to sprawl even more. Against smeone who uses upper body attacks more (Couture, etc), this is not so effective. Most MMA guys stick with the single and double so it works fine for him.
     
  15. Gregster

    Gregster Black Belt

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    I'm hardly the authority on MMA, but I hear people criticize Chucks' punching all the time-- he's toounorthodox, lacks proper form, loops his punches, and (now) he overextends. All this may be true, but the fact remains that the dude wins fights, period. And he's by no means the first fighter to be criticized for supposedly violating certain cardinal rules of fighting even while winning (Muhammed Ali, anyone?).

    Some guys just have an innate ability to get away with, even prosper, using technique that most athletes fail with, regardless of the sport. And what Chuck does may not work for you, but it seems to work for Chuck. Everyone's different, and the guys who excel are the ones who figure out what they do well and apply it effectively.
     
  16. monkey roll

    monkey roll Green Belt

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    his standup is ugly ass hell, but it works.......so i guess he's not one for being pretty. I still won't use his stand up as a model for my stand up, too unorthodox for my taste, and i'm no chuck.
     
  17. oc10spray

    oc10spray Blue Belt

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    Ugly but you can't argue with the resluts. Not everyone is gonna be smooth like Sugar Ray Robinson or some other slick puncher. I can say I'd rather not eat one of Chuck's right hands, that's for sure...
     
  18. jamison

    jamison Brown Belt

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    There is really not room for arguement here because Chuck has even admitted himself that he does not have great form. This is nothing new. He has wide looping punches but they carry tremendous powere. When he fights someone (with good technique) that punches short and straight, he will always have issues. BUT he will then adapt as he's proven.
     
  19. aries

    aries Silver Belt

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    The main problem with throwing like he does, over extending, is that it leaves you unable to throw combos effectively. But thats moot point when you hit as hard as Chuck against opponents that can't really take advantage of your openings and are easy to hit with single shots. If he was fighting someone who had a air tight defense then throwing single bombs like he does wouldn't get him very far. Then he'd have adapt and not over extend so he could throw combos and open 'em up.
     
  20. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Exactly. Any guy who can pick Chuck apart with clean technique is gonna have to deal with the fact he was a multiple Division II All-American wrestler.
     

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