Does Iron Mike Tyson BODY Royce Gracie at UFC 1

ocean size said:
The argument is mike simply doesn't have the tools to deal with things Royce can do. Royce never needs to be at punching range with Mike without being damn near on the ground and having zero fear of effective strikes down there with the lack of kicks.

Mike reacts to the takedown - then what? Backpeddles? 1 punch KO? You really think he's got a 100% chance to end the fight with an arm punch on basically the outside of his own ankle on a low outside single leg? He gets one punch and then he's on the ground and the attack begins. Mike may have crouched, but he had never trained nor needed to attack below belt level nor deal with those attacks.

Even if he knew it was coming and at least conceptually had a game plan to avoid the ground: Mike was an incredible boxer, but you are acting like he's the fastest to ever do it. MMA has seen many people with faster reflexes with more exposure to grappling that still get taken down.

Mike Tyson himself said there's no way he wins in '93. Was he being humble? Maybe. But we are talking about a time when he would have had no exposure to grappling - he would have had zero training to deal with BJJ. His first exposure to how difficult a takedown and ending up in someone's guard would have been watching the first fight in the locker room, if he didn't meet Royce instead of Jimmerson. If we are talking UFC 8, he knew what he's up against and was willing to get 6 months of training its a little different, but sorry, at UFC 1 Tyson doesn't even know what a low single is let alone how to defend against it.
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Cmon man, cool aid tastes good but it’s lack of nutrients has made you’re thinking lazy.
A. You are using basic McDojo logic to argue for you’re boy. It’s backed up by a lack of boing technique knowledge a powered by a blind allegiance to the Gracie myth.
B. Claiming there are better athletes than mike that have competed in MMA is crazy and to claim there were “many people” who had those abilities (athletically, technique wise, and mentality) is insane at best.
C. Yes he was being humble that is part of his shtick now.
 
A. Has no substance 'Mike was a one of a kind athlete and boxer' doesn't really illuminate the conversation. If you want to share what boxing techniques are effective against someone closing on the outside of your ankle from below your knee, please do.
zapataxiv said:
B. Claiming there are better athletes than mike that have competed in MMA is crazy and to claim there were “many people” who had those abilities (athletically, technique wise, and mentality) is insane at best.
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I didn't say there are people that are better at everything Mike had in MMA, I only said faster. And you know quite well he wouldn't have been the fastest moving athlete that has ever been in MMA or would somehow be able to beat takedowns like noone else in the world can without having seen one. Technique wise, what do you mean? What anti-grappler techniques does he have in his prime never having seen grappling?
 
KING BONES said:
i am not trying to offend anyone, but in all honesty i feel that there is a rather high chance that upon royce's willingness to initiate grappling contact with tyson, mike would be of cause to freeze up and enter into a state of tonic immobility suddenly brought on by incidents of sexual misapplication as a youth...a triggering effect as it were
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<Dana05>

{<jordan}
 
Yes ... im 90% sure.

The athleticism difference alone is ridiculous. Tyson was a 200lbs guy, but moved like a 100 lbs guy with the power of a 280 lbs guy.

Even without TDD a guy like Tyson would be so hard to take down: He was builtd like a tank + low center of gravity and his reaction time was really really good. He also had amazing foot speed, balance and dexterity => TD killer.

Tysons body was as fast as his hands ... dude was A FREAK.

Teenager Tyson (first fight) ... dat movement ... unless you were a college wrestler within 20 lbs or bigger than him you are likely getting smashed.
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Forget Royce .. 15 y/o Tyson would beat most Top UFC guys ...

& Royce would lose vs CM Punk

lma000
 
ocean size said:
A. Has no substance 'Mike was a one of a kind athlete and boxer' doesn't really illuminate the conversation. If you want to share what boxing techniques are effective against someone closing on the outside of your ankle from below your knee, please do.


I didn't say there are people that are better at everything Mike had in MMA, I only said faster. And you know quite well he wouldn't have been the fastest moving athlete that has ever been in MMA or would somehow be able to beat takedowns like noone else in the world can without having seen one. Technique wise, what do you mean? What anti-grappler techniques does he have in his prime never having seen grappling?
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Okay you’re ignorance of basic movement and what is required in being A high level boxer turns this conversation from an actual discussion to a pissing contest. You’re blind devotion to the smoldering garbage pit of pajama wrestling makes your opinions worthless makes you too impartial to even take seriously.
I am scared to ask for fear of the cringe... but is your av in reference to the old bjj quote?
 
This topic is funny.

One would think that the early UFCs proved beyond a shadow of the doubt that when a striker, even a much bigger, stronger striker with hellish offense (Pat Smith, anyone?) faces a grappler, and the striker has no real grappling, the grappler always wins.

One would think.

The mentions of Tank Abbott are also funny. Abbott was a junior college wrestling champion who even beat some of his early opponents by taking them down and pounding them out. The whole reason he was able to keep a fight standing to show off his striking was because of his wrestling.
 
zapataxiv said:
Okay you’re ignorance of basic movement and what is required in being A high level boxer turns this conversation from an actual discussion to a pissing contest. You’re blind devotion to the smoldering garbage pit of pajama wrestling makes your opinions worthless makes you too impartial to even take seriously.
I am scared to ask for fear of the cringe... but is your av in reference to the old bjj quote?
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Nah I'm not much of a BJJ fan to be honest. But I think it's pretty telling in all the time since UFC 1 of all the fairly 1 dimensional fighters that have done pretty well, there have been BJJ guys, wrestlers, kickboxers, have any been pure boxers?

Handfighting, no elbows, what a limited skillset.
 
Final Say said:
I think mike wins

sincerely doubt Royce had what it would take to get mike on the ground, he was a fire hydrant and fast as hell

But mike would say Royce would beat him, cuz mike is the shit
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Problem is Tyson needs space to KO him. Arm punching in a clinch is not going to be enough.

They were in talks of a match but Tysons representatives did not want it.
 
spacetime said:
Problem is Tyson needs space to KO him. Arm punching in a clinch is not going to be enough.

They were in talks of a match but Tysons representatives did not want it.
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Mike Tyson was fuckin devastating in the pocket, his short hooks and uppercuts were probably his most damaging punches
 
Recall that Mike Tyson got stuck in the clinch in a lot of fights, like against Bonecrusher Smith, and could never do much damage to him. So it wasn't like every guy he hit once lost the fight... Gotta be realistic here. Royce is the favorite.
 
spacetime said:
in a boxing match... not a grappler closing you down like a cobra.
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Im sure there are grapplers, even at the time who could get Tyson down and grind him out. I'm just not convinced Royce was one of them
 
Final Say said:
Im sure there are grapplers, even at the time who could get Tyson down and grind him out. I'm just not convinced Royce was one of them
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A grappler can just shoot low and no amount of boxing training in the world can help you. The grappler is out of range for any punches, you are just going to down like a pinball. Never fails, especially not against guy who is only competent with his hands...
 
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spacetime said:
A grappler can just shoot low and no amount of boxing training in the world can help you. The grappler is out of range for any punches, you are just going to down like a pinball. Never fails, especially not against guy who is only competent with his hands...
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The Gracie's are not well known for their takedowns.... mike Tyson was ungodly strong and compact. I think you'd need a really really good judo player or a strong wrestler to take him down and keep him there early in a fight
 
Final Say said:
mike Tyson was ungodly strong and compact.
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No he wasn't. The clinch was his only weak point. You are pointing to fights were he was wasn't well matched. He got completely stuck in clinches against Bonecrusher Smith, Holyfield, etc. He was not strong relatively speaking, like a Foreman, say, who just pushed everybody off him.
 
spacetime said:
A grappler can just shoot low and no amount of boxing training in the world can help you..
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but you would eat 1 punch ... 100%

The question is if he could knock you out with it.

& Royce was slow as fuck.

Tyson would probalby knock royces head to his ass.
 
spacetime said:
No he wasn't. The clinch was his only weak point. You are pointing to fights were he was wasn't well matched. He got completely stuck in clinches against Bonecrusher Smith, Holyfield, etc. He was not strong relatively speaking, like a Foreman, say, who just pushed everybody off him.
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He was 5'9 and 200 pounds

You're comparing him to giants
 
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