Does having a plan improve your bjj?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Deltafarce, Dec 26, 2012.

  1. Deltafarce

    Deltafarce Green Belt

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    I've noticed especially lately with all the advanced material we have been going over, I find myself almost feeling lost as far as having a plan. I kinda just take advantage of what my opponent gives me rather than setting out to do something.

    Do u think it's best to set a plan, even if informal? Such as fr guard I will xyz, from mount I will
     
  2. Oleg Raktatov

    Oleg Raktatov Blue Belt

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    Anything in life done with a plan is safer and more efficient. Without one, you flow with the go. It might seem more fun, but you could end up in wierd places...
     
  3. Monsolo

    Monsolo Blue Belt

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    I think it's good to have more of an outline as opposed to a plan. I have options A, B and C from this position; if I am in this position I have these options, etc. I find that when I go into light rolling thinking "I am going to get this submission from this position" it usually doesn't work because something happens I didn't account for.

    Adaptability is key--it's good to have a plan, it's even better to be able to change it on the fly.
     
  4. Bubble Bath

    Bubble Bath ************************* **********************fu

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    I dont plan before, but i do plan during the match. If I knew my opponent's style and weakness before the match, I would plan.
     
  5. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    It really depends on what I need out of this particular sparring session.

    Many, I go in with a specific technique or two that I will do almost anything possible to get into position to attempt. That is my sole focus and I'll often give up position to get back to that one position again to work whatever is my focus for the week.

    Sometimes though, I just go for the fun of it. Sometimes, you just need to remember why you're training at all and I'll just have as much fun as I can. I'll play with low percentage stuff, hit my favorite sweeps, set an odd challenge for the day. I figure, if I really plan on training long term (for as long as my body will allow me), then I'm really not in such a super hurry with my training that I can't take a day now and then to just enjoy the fun of it rather than being super focused.
     
  6. RJ Green

    RJ Green Black Belt

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    i plan to win. i usually do.

    perfect preparation prevents piss poor performance!
     
  7. Monsolo

    Monsolo Blue Belt

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    Amusing, but not very helpful to the starter of the thread, is it?
     
  8. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    Yes, it helps a ton. There are no world champs that dont have pre set strategies that they know work for them. The problem for most bjj athletes at the hobby level is that their coach is very uncomfortable teaching very few things and letting the athletes figure shit out on their own. This leads to 45 minutes of a 90 minute class being a technique seminar with 7 different options from a given position. If you were actually training with a plan, the technique portion would take literally 10 minutes and you would have an extra 35 to drill whats in your plan, but that requires a coach that has figured out how to make people achieve their potential, which is very rare.
     
  9. thepopularjock

    thepopularjock Brown Belt

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    I think a plan helps.
    If you have time and available material - study your opponent and look for weaknesses. When you find something that looks like a weakness or even tendencies - you can form an attack. I favor being aggressive and attacking - but that has gotten me in some bad situations :icon_lol:
    I used to train with a guy in boxing that was AMAZING!!! I mean he was so fast that he felt that NO ONE could match his speed so he trained HIS GAME and didn't study his opponents. I have no idea how he turned out but he was a badass.
    I still favor having a plan. I had a coach that used to say "You will play like you practice". Develop a plan each time you roll with someone. It will help you find your strengths and weaknesses. Then you can start leading, pushing or baiting your opponents into your strengths. I think you will see a real difference in the outcome of your matches.
     
  10. Monsolo

    Monsolo Blue Belt

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    First, I agree with you.


    Second, then he should have said "Create a plan based on techniques you know you can use successfully with a high success rate" not "Plan to win! I do!"
     
  11. ArTofF16hT1ng

    ArTofF16hT1ng Bånned Banned

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    Hey there.

    Can I find any videos of you on youtube?

    Thanks.
     
  12. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Creating a plan is necessary for a lot of things, particularly damage control.

    If you stay open minded and react to whatever any opponent does you're basically opening yourself to 1000s of potential scenarios.

    Of you go in with an aggressive plan that you have rehearsed there are only a finite of things that could go wrong, all of which you've experienced in practice.

    Example.

    I train to get one butterfly sweep. I know every aspect of pulling the position, executing the sweep and countering the counters, AND I have more experience defending my best position than my opponent has attacking it. It's my world and I'm ready for all 10 things that could go wrong.

    If I go in and say "let's see what happens. It's not my world, and an infinite number of things could go wrong, half of them could be my opponents specialty.

    You need a plan. Or at least guidelines.
     
  13. outonbail

    outonbail Living My Dreams

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    you should
    as a higher lvl blue I keep looking at armtriangles & ezekiels now ( yes, i did watch ryan halls dvd lol) I've implemented the ezekiel a year ago, and since his last dvd i'm really playing around with all the chokes. so it's kind of my goal to get the grips and finish

    just find something that you would like to learn, drill it , and try to implement it during rolling. troubleshoot every drilling session, what did not work last time, how did people defend

    thats how I implement stuff successfully
     
  14. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    Exactly. Having been around quite a few schools for drop ins and what not, most people do not have this mindset. They try to learn as much as they can, spending little time perfecting one thing, but lots of time learning lots of things. My coach was an old Armenian and he used to say it is better to have 1 sharp axe than 5 dull ones. Like the above poster said, train a few things very often and know all of the ins and outs IMO.
     
  15. BJJArsenal

    BJJArsenal Brown Belt

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    I try and keep a plan that's all related to each other, so all my 'axes' compliment each other. By this I mean I have some options I'm good and confident at from butterfly so that I can go into a single leg x-guard from there, were I have a few other good options etc.
     
  16. RJ Green

    RJ Green Black Belt

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    plans are a framework for future disappointment. the saddest, most neurotic people i know are those who can't do anything without lists and schedules, people whose lives are dictated by their predetermined expectations.

    if you can't achieve your goal without a plan, shouldn't you plan to learn how? the best musicians don't have their face stuffed in sheet music, and they can improvise. they know their instrument so well that they just play.

    that's the idea. well, that's how i operate - know as much as i can, see the opportunity and have the ability to seize it.

    i sometimes do and sometimes don't disagree with that ax analogy. there's the philosophy that you learn one particular throw or sequence, become a damn dynamo, and cruise with that. i admire that dedication, but you're also hindering your ability, and you're becoming predictable.

    i see my game like a tree. i've got the trunk - my core concepts, my handful of killer move - but i need the branches. i need the ability to respond to whatever is thrown my way, and i need to remain predictably unpredictable. to a point. i'm not saying pull guard and berimbolo, but if you're a guy that's johnny hip-toss, sooner or later you're gonna get countered.

    but beyond all that, you need the killer instinct. you can't have the mentality that there's some grand solution, you need to get it in your head that you're indestructible. that the dude across from you is about to have a bad day. that you didn't spend hundreds of hours and dollars training for something to piss it away because you accepted the possibility of loss. the plan is you're going to adapt to your opponent, and then crush them.

    so despite what some of these other nancies are saying, i think your plan to exploit their plan is the best plan. you can create opportunities and make things easier for yourself, but adaptability and the 'fuck you, you lose today' mindset goes a long, long way.
     
  17. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    ^^^
    having a plan is predicated on proper training.
    If you aren't a good grappler, than you aren't going to win Plan or not. But if you do have a strategy than you can do well and no matter what people say, one dimensional looking grapplers actually have surprisingly complete games because every position is connected.

    Every famous up and comer has been victorious on account of specializing in one position and expanding as they progressed through the ranks.

    The only exception is Kron Gracie who essentially had 20 years of experience before he got his black belt. Every other prodigy has their move that can't be beat.

    When ate people going to learn that BJJ is no different than any other combat sport.

    Boxing, wrestling, Judo, and recently MMA consist of top level people coming in with their specialties (tokui waza if you like) and making the game revolve around the ability to impose your best weapon while never allowing your opponent unsheathe their own. That is the game.

    Until the BJJ community understands this, year one white belts will go around demolishing their competition at tournaments with simple air tight strategies while people with outdated training methods call those white belts sandbaggers.
     
  18. BJJArsenal

    BJJArsenal Brown Belt

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    You're both right. I especially like the trunk analogy. Your A game can not be one particular move or sequence, it needs to have branches into other sections of your game.
     
  19. deadlizard

    deadlizard cold blooded

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    Seriously, you should be writing a book. Every post you made, even flaming and trolling ones, I find myself agreeing.
     
  20. Sloth

    Sloth Brown Belt

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    I think having a plan is useful for training certain things. Having no plan is also useful for certain things. Imo, every way of training is going to develop certain physical or mental attributes. Training guard with no arms develops leg dexterity and angling, training with your eyes closed develops sensitivity, internal awareness of base, pressure, etc...Training with a plan is useful for training unwavering focus on accomplishing a goal, training adaptability, and is a good way to really dig deep in understanding your techniques at a deeper level. It also gives you a good base line for things to work on and trouble shooting; where did your plan go wrong (or right) and how to I trouble shoot this and improve it.

    Training with no plan can help you with an overall conceptual understanding of grappling. It can help a lot with developing a sharp mind for finding answers to complex and unfamiliar problems on the fly. It can help with extending your current physical comfort zones (being put in positions that you are not physically used to can extend your range of motion and teach you a lot about where you are strong or weak.). It can help you discover new positions, techniques, movements that you would not easily come across other wise.

    I look at it like the difference between aimlessly wandering around your neighborhood and going to a specific destination. Sometimes, if you have the time, you can mix the two approaches. When I wander aimlessly, I find cool stuff sometimes (like a new used book store down the street from my house), or sometimes I get lost and have to figure out how to get home. When I have a destination, I get from point A to point B in the most efficient way possible, and I know every nuance of my path if I take it often enough (I know every pothole on my route to work), but I am not as familiar with side streets and things that are off that path. When I give myself a little extra time on the way to work and let myself explore a little, I can take side streets, discover new things, figure out new (and maybe more efficient) routes to work, while still getting to the same destination on time. That's the approach that I like the best.
     

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