Does Francis Ngannou belong to the top 5 HW GOAT?

[lerobshow]

His overall record has aged like milk unfortunately. He beat prime Blaydes and Rozenstruik. But JDS, Cain, Arlovski, and Overeem wins were all very old versions of former champs.

He is 1-1 with Stipe. Losing the first fight 50-45

Lost to Derrick Lewis.

Jones beat Gane super easy. Francis squeaked out a decision.

Did very well against Fury... but since he lost nobody will ever remember it.
Joshua annihilated him.

Overeem was actually doing really good at that time. You might want to rewatch that.

Overreem is one of them guys that surprised me when USADA came in. He performed much better once they came which was a total WTF moment to me.

Go look at Overeem record when USADA came in. The guy did good. And you better believe me, I had my fair share of doubts of him before USADA came LOL.

 

[snugglecakes]

his best wins are elder abuse wins against great grandpas light years past their prime

 

[Dr. Rose]

No respect for Big Nog?

Good one. I was thinking Overeem as a possibility as well.

 

[BowserJr]

With everything going on with the PFL and Francis Ngannou showing up in Usman’s corner, people are starting to talk again about a possible UFC return — and honestly, I just want to say it up front: I think it’s the right move.

The UFC needs to re-sign Francis, even if it means Dana has to swallow his ego. You simply can’t pass on Francis vs. Jon or Francis vs. Tom — these are massive fights that could save a heavyweight division that, let’s be real, is in the toilet right now.

Seriously, look at the division today — who are the real up-and-coming threats? Almeida? Gane? Lol.

But I’m making this post because I want your opinion. I saw a heated debate recently and I really want to hear from the Sherdog crowd on this. I won’t say where I stand because I don’t want to seem biased — but here’s the question (true or false):

Francis Ngannou does not belong in the top 5 greatest heavyweights of all time.

For example, would you put Francis over any of these guys in terms of career?

• Fedor
• Cormier
• Stipe
• Cain
• JDS
• Werdum

I’m honestly curious what you guys think. Just had a long back-and-forth with someone on this and want to get the take from the old school fans here.

Does Francis really belong in the top 5 all-time HWs? Let’s hear the arguments.

No. Prime v Prime. He could KO any of them.

If they each fought 10x he'd probably KO most of them 3/10

 

[lerobshow]

No. Prime v Prime. He could KO any of them.

If they each fought 10x he'd probably KO most of them 3/10

Don't forget the PEDs were rampant at that time.


I'm not sure Francis want to knock on the door of PED Fedor

 

[lerobshow]

Good one. I was thinking Overeem as a possibility as well.

Overeem is a mindfuck for me.

Everyone suspected him to be on PEDs (I have no idea if he ever been caught) but then USADA came in the UFC and he had one of his best run.

Dude was having a good run under USADA lmao. But for sure there's no way that guy was natty. I mean holly molly guacamole

 

[lerobshow]

No. Prime v Prime. He could KO any of them.

If they each fought 10x he'd probably KO most of them 3/10

How many of them submit him?

 

[BowserJr]

Don't forget the PEDs were rampant at that time.


I'm not sure Francis want to knock on the door of PED Fedor

No proof Fedor was ever on PEDs. Many fighters in Pride and UFC used more than now. That's for sure. But despite that many did not. At least not steroids, test, HGH, etc...

I mean, there are tons of banned stuff now that is nowhere near the stuff I mentioned. IMO its more believable that some people used those types of things that really should never have been banned. (IE. IVs)

 

[lerobshow]

No proof Fedor was ever on PEDs. Many fighters in Pride and UFC used more than now. That's for sure. But despite that many did not. At least not steroids, test, HGH, etc...

I mean, there are tons of banned stuff now that is nowhere near the stuff I mentioned. IMO its more believable that some people used those types of things that really should never have been banned. (IE. IVs)

Fair play. But come on we all know some fighters that were on the juice that never popped... Hendricks... Machida... (Machida popped tho I think), Belfort, etc..

But I understand what you mean. At that time there was no testing so it's hard to say. But at the same time it isn't lol.

You can't tell me that Hendricks was fighting clean. GSP spent a good 50,75k trying to get him to test for PEDs and Johnny wanted to part of that (he even referenced WADA which had nothing to do with anything).

Anyway that's the past but I get what you're saying.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

I wouldn’t even put him in the Top 10 HW all time. Most of his resume is made up of beating legends way past their best. He’s got one UFC title defense, and one PFL title win. Lots of HWs have resumes as good or better.

Exactly THIS ^

 

[BowserJr]

Fair play. But come on we all know some fighters that were on the juice that never popped... Hendricks... Machida... (Machida popped tho I think), Belfort, etc..

But I understand what you mean. At that time there was no testing so it's hard to say. But at the same time it isn't lol.

You can't tell me that Hendricks was fighting clean. GSP spent a good 50,75k trying to get him to test for PEDs and Johnny wanted to part of that (he even referenced WADA which had nothing to do with anything).

Anyway that's the past but I get what you're saying.

Machida self reported for a substance that shouldn't be banned. They threw the book at him. Roundtree did the same and got slap on wrist.

Belfort juiced when it was 100% legal and exploited trt exemption

Johnny was on something but who knows what. Guys like him, Weidman, GSP, Fedor, Rampage, Bisping, Diaz, BJ definitely took supplements. Thing is which are real unfair PEDs and which arent .

BCAAs, pre workouts, etc enhance performance but to what degree?

Where is the line?

I dont think any of those guys were doing anything crazy... maybe EPO I guess but who knows

 

[lerobshow]

Machida self reported for a substance that shouldn't be banned. They threw the book at him. Roundtree did the same and got slap on wrist.

Belfort juiced when it was 100% legal and exploited trt exemption

Johnny was on something but who knows what. Guys like him, Weidman, GSP, Fedor, Rampage, Bisping, Diaz, BJ definitely took supplements. Thing is which are real unfair PEDs and which arent .

BCAAs, pre workouts, etc enhance performance but to what degree?

Where is the line?

I dont think any of those guys were doing anything crazy... maybe EPO I guess but who knows

Again, we will never know. But you can't just be knocking people out left and right with a right hand like Hendricks did Kampann (who been in wars and wasn't easy to KO) and then go from what Hendricks has become.

We'll never know the truth though so I guess we should stop assuming but man Johnny to me was suspicious asf. As much as I praise Overreem for his revival when USADA came in, Holly shit the downfall of Hendricks was a sad thing to see....

But yeah. I guess the point of my post was that Ngannou doesn't deserve in the top 5 of HW GOAT. I don't even think he's top 10.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

In no order, I'll name HWs I rank over Frank all time: Fedor, Cain, Big Nog, Mirko, JDS, Werdum, Stipe, Randy, Kharnitonov, Mir, Overeem.
Francis is right around DC all time HW, so no, nowhere near top 5.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Not top 5 all time.

Of course he is top 5 right now.
Sign him up.

The top 3 need to go at it or of Jon is out, Frank vs Tom is just as good.

Book em.

 

[CatchtheseHands]

Lol Dana doesn't NEED to do anything.
Christ man cone on. Dana will never do anything with Ngannou again.

There's more chance of aliens landing in a space ship on Pennsylvania Avenue.

2nd....ngannou is really just a big Strong man who punches hard and fast. I don't even consider him an MMA fighter.
Plus his punching technique sucks.
Usually he just bumrushes opponents, swinging wildly for the first 60secs and , yes, if he connects its Game over. He even managed to connect against Tyson fury.....whoop di doo he still LOST.

How did he do against Anthony Joshua in a boxing ring? Got destroyed that's what happened.

Big strong man who out wrestled Stipe in their second fight, wrestle fucked Gane and scored a perfectly timed TD on Renan then proceeded to pound his head into the Canvas making it look easy. Definitely just a big strong man who punches hard.



This narrative needs to be put to rest already...

 

[laleggenda27]

You could arguably swap Francis with Crocop

CroCop never won a major title, unless you count the Pride OWGP, where he only fought 1 HW (Barnett, who had just fought Big Nog that same night).

I think the first 6 are pretty solidified. If there were an argument for swapping Francis out of #7, I think it would be for either DC, Overeem, or Mir (Barnett might have a better case than any of these guys, but he's just too tainted).

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Again, we will never know. But you can't just be knocking people out left and right with a right hand like Hendricks did Kampann (who been in wars and wasn't easy to KO) and then go from what Hendricks has become.

We'll never know the truth though so I guess we should stop assuming but man Johnny to me was suspicious asf. As much as I praise Overreem for his revival when USADA came in, Holly shit the downfall of Hendricks was a sad thing to see....

But yeah. I guess the point of my post was that Ngannou doesn't deserve in the top 5 of HW GOAT. I don't even think he's top 10.

Hendricks was juicing most likely with HGH and flushing his system with IVs, when IVs were banned he went off a cliff. 15-2 pre USADA/IV, 1-5 post with much less visible muscle mass. Went from one shotting decent chins in Fitch, Kampmann, even Brenneman and launching GSP across the octagon for (almost) half the fight to being incapable of hurting anyone including chinny Hector Lombard.

Before their UFC 167 fight, GSP pushed for enhanced VADA testing, which Hendricks initially agreed to but later declined, opting for NSAC/WADA testing instead.

Guy was juicing, supplementing, and taking freshly illegal supplements. Became a fat mess who missed weight three times post IV including at MW. I hold little sympathy for Pigg Rigg.

CroCop never won a major title, unless you count the Pride OWGP, where he only fought 1 HW (Barnett, who had just fought Big Nog that same night).

>Minimizing winning the 2006 OWGP as if a win over ancient Stipe (arguable) and can Feriera (lol) is more impressive
>acting as if Mirko didn't also fight multiple times that night
>the other "non HW" he fought was Wandy, who he ended up knocking out for the first time in Wandy's career in an all time great highlight
>Mirko was 221lbs in that fight while Wanderlei was 225

 

[Davey Grant]

No way....

 

[Last Emperor XYZ]

1- Fedor
2- Nog
3- Stipe
4- Werdum
5- Cain
6- JDS
7- Crocop
8- Overeem
9- Barnett
10- Ngannou

 

[Lord Pyjamas]

In theory yes!
But we actually have to see it happen in the real world for it to count.
And that will never occur. So no!