Does Cuba have the best amateur program in boxing?

[Hypetrainhipsta]

I see a lot more guys from central Asia turning pro recently.
Just at HW you have Jalolov (who went back to the amateurs for the Olympics) from Uzbekistan and Dychko and Zhan Kossobutskiy from Kazakhstan. The later 2 need to be moved a bit faster because thex are already a bit older, but Jalolov has a bright future ahead of him.

 

[Noraaq]

Why is it that Mexico has good pro boxers but they don’t perform well in the ammies?

 

[SandisLL]

Well, most likely they don't have good amateur boxing programms with decent financing.
Also gyms and trainers, managers prefer to turn in pro anyone ASAP.
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Of course majority of them does have " long track " in pros until their get offer from some TOP15-30 promoter.
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Unlike for example these amateur superstars : Ward, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holyfield, Usyk, AJ, Loma, Povetkin and if look deeper, plenty other pro boxers too.
Wilder too had not bad amateur accomplishments. Ruiz and Mike Tyson in amateurs were very good and highly watchable too, that's reason why they get attention and offers ….
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Actually medium size promotions in not well known countries too not rarerly prefer select from local amateurs with achievments : easier to evalue candidate, they are better known locally and easier to advertise these boxers. More chances that not only he will sell tickets, with his name on event card, even if on undercard, at least some interest is warranted.
& it's good way to get amateur sport fans attention, sell them tickets for pro events.
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Sports fans rarerly know amateur scene in smaller countries, if this boxer didn't had Continental or World level championships medals etc, they think that he didn't had amateur career.
If looking deeper, might come out that he was some medalist in his country amateur championship for example. With him to sell tickets for local event is easier & usually they do first pro bouts in local promotions.
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This isn't fast track like world level amateur superstars does have, still it's better than if a guy isn't known even locally.

 

[Hypetrainhipsta]

Japan would be a country with a good developmental system that is focused on producing fighters that are able to do well in the pro ranks and not just collecting medals in the amateur ranks.

 

[aries]

Why is it that Mexico has good pro boxers but they don’t perform well in the ammies?

Because they turn pro young. Canelo himself turned pro at 15. Their set up is really focused on pro boxing.

 

[Square-Ring]

Panama are also top competitors.

 

[svmVR2097]

I was thinking in the 21st century (basically since the massive US decline in amateur performance).

Bryan Clay and Ashton Eaton would like to have a talk with you

as far as boxing, Clarissa Shields dominated ammys.

The US men are getting back on track but the european and cuban styles are more suited for the amateur point system. Also, there's many more sports one can viably compete in and play growing up in the US. Most parents don't have to look hard to find a basketball rec league or football league to play in. Playing T-ball is a national past time. Hockey you can play outside year round with friends.

Boxing, you have to not only go out of your way to find a gym thats decent, you have to get beyond the mothers hesitation of kids beating each other up, even though that's not what happens. And not everyone can be Deontay Wilder with dumb strength and win a Bronze after a year of training

BJJ will be getting much more popular in the coming 2 decades in the US from what i've been seeing after moving back here.

 

[Mr2urbo]

Why is it that Mexico has good pro boxers but they don’t perform well in the ammies?

Money

There’s no incentive in having an ammy where turning pro makes them money at a young age.

 

[svmVR2097]

Money

There’s no incentive in having an ammy where turning pro makes them money at a young age.

That Gold Medal did wonders for Oscar and his marketability early on, granted he was born in the US so that's 2 audiences he captured

 

[Mr2urbo]

That Gold Medal did wonders for Oscar and his marketability early on, granted he was born in the US so that's 2 audiences he captured

It took De La Hoya a while to win over the Mexicans, he was looked at as a “pocho” and a pretty boy, they were used to the typical rugged Mexican boxers like JCC, it wasn’t after the Vargas fight that he won over the Mexican audience, but anyway, a Mexican boxing gold medalist would be a huge star in Mexico but its just far fetched with all the corruption which is another reason why they don’t perform well in the ammies.

 

[SandisLL]

t the european and cuban styles are more suited for the amateur point system.

For example, sport boxing in europe had roots mainly from U.K and France and this was TKO/KO boxing more than point system and judges cards.
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First roots for sports boxing in russia under monarch and capitalism rules were : knock down boxing. From U.K and France.
And before this, bare hands h2h stuff " get opponent down ASAP " they had > 1000 years.
In 1950 ies knock down boxing was more respected in SU and in U.K too btw.
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Yes, from 60 ies amateurs more turned to point system.
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[JayE]

Bryan Clay and Ashton Eaton would like to have a talk with you

as far as boxing, Clarissa Shields dominated ammys.

The US men are getting back on track but the european and cuban styles are more suited for the amateur point system. Also, there's many more sports one can viably compete in and play growing up in the US. Most parents don't have to look hard to find a basketball rec league or football league to play in. Playing T-ball is a national past time. Hockey you can play outside year round with friends.

Boxing, you have to not only go out of your way to find a gym thats decent, you have to get beyond the mothers hesitation of kids beating each other up, even though that's not what happens. And not everyone can be Deontay Wilder with dumb strength and win a Bronze after a year of training

BJJ will be getting much more popular in the coming 2 decades in the US from what i've been seeing after moving back here.

Why would two decathletes want to have a talk with me? The US amateur boxing system used to be fairly dominant (clearly better than the entire Soviet system, for example, and only really challenged by Cuba). After 1996 it went on a steep decline. There has been some small improvement recently.

 

[SandisLL]

The US amateur boxing system used to be fairly dominant (clearly better than the entire Soviet system, for example, and only really challenged by Cuba).

Really?
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Very good system, forums are full with claims that to get amateur bout is not easy.
O.K, with U.K or DK forums there are no such issues.
There of course is a big problem: these countries are not poor or associated with socialism.
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After 1996 it went on a steep decline

Of course, label pro even if for 50$ is more respected than label amateur.
Internet with dreamers about millions in pockets<45> appeared.
God help.
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[aries]

Really?
------------------
Very good system, forums are full with claims that to get amateur bout is not easy.
O.K, with U.K or DK forums there are no such issues.
There of course is a big problem: these countries are not poor or associated with socialism.
-

Of course, label pro even if for 50$ is more respected than label amateur.
Internet with dreamers about millions in pockets<45> appeared.
God help.
-------------------------------

Boxing in the UK is still seen as a predominantly working-class sport. Yes you have white-collar boxing but these people are not making careers out of boxing.

 

[HandNoise]

Why is it that Mexico has good pro boxers but they don’t perform well in the ammies?

too sloppy, not sharp enough, no good on a point system.

 

[SandisLL]

Boxing in the UK is still seen as a predominantly working-class sport.

Sadly.
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I know some amateur boxers from upper middle class.
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Not world level stars, still if young guy wish to bang, why not?
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Of course not always amateur sport is road to future in pro game, still.
This is not only about boxing.
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First road is …...........respect...……….
Silent.
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[BluntTrauma21]

too sloppy, not sharp enough, no good on a point system.

The olympics/ammies didn't even give credit to body work before the latest rule change did they? Taking body work away from a Mexican is like taking the epee from a fencer. No chance.

 

[DeJulez]

It took De La Hoya a while to win over the Mexicans, he was looked at as a “pocho” and a pretty boy, they were used to the typical rugged Mexican boxers like JCC, it wasn’t after the Vargas fight that he won over the Mexican audience, but anyway, a Mexican boxing gold medalist would be a huge star in Mexico but its just far fetched with all the corruption which is another reason why they don’t perform well in the ammies.

Most go pro at a young age for money.
They are basically the opposite of the East Euro countries and Cuba, where their amateurs are paid and pushed to win medals where Mexicans are pushed to win belts.

 

[SandisLL]

Pro gloves ofc are more suitable for body beating.
Amateurs too does have TKOs and KOs + for ammy safety refs more willingly stop bout than in pros.
They beat and might damage also in amateurs.
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I think major reason is………...gyms and trainers, managers.
It is hard to get something from local beginner amateur, from pro even if he earned 50$ is easier to get at least some $.
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They are basically the opposite of the East Euro countries and Cuba, where their amateurs are paid and pushed to win medals

Now not all FSU countries finance boxing in ammounts that they mainained in older times.
Some eastern european countries will seriously sponsor you only when you already had some achievments above their National level tournaments.
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The problem with european pro boxing is that in plenty of countries is hard to get good pro offers if you don't have amateur credentials at least at National amateur level.
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For example boxing promoters in some rich european countries highly prefer former amateurs.
for example National amateur junior champ, medalists, National champs or medalists in adults etc. Yes, not world known, still for local promotion enough lucrative is a guy that was National junior and adults champ, now guy for example is 19-20y.o and they might offer contract.
Another method is to select from young amateurs guy, that maybe isn't champ but does beat hard even in ammies. Then with proper training after year - two they are not bad for local pro pomotions.
& One example when manager offered to turn in pros to local KB guy, he was twice National junior champ and once National adults champ in KB. More known locally, tickets sell easier etc.
Usually they normally adapt to be a boxer, this guy no, he isn't good boxer, still tickets sales are not bad. OK, during 2 years he started to improve his boxing.

 

[SandisLL]

Support for amateurs, for example private club might offer some support if a guy will get some medal at nationals, even better at higher level, they might use this as PR for their club.
Easier to get new clients for the club, cheaper advertisements expenses to get new clients etc.
There ofc these are clubs with some sponsors or at least rich clubs.
More often they might cover expenses for camp or offer discounts than pay you Money.