Does anyone actually think Volk is the best featherweight in the world?

[legkicktko]

This is revisionist history. Lots of people scored it for Volkanovski, including 2 of 3 Sherdog PBP judges.

The fight was extremely close.

That is a fair point.

Look at media scores, it was 18 for Max, and 9 for Volk.

Like it or not (not directed at you), it is statistically improbable that only 1/3 of media scores were for Volk but he got 2/3 of the ringside judges. Objectively speaking, everyone knows ringside judges really suck. All of this context matters in my opinion. This, in conjunction with the fact that people like D'amato are still judging, makes me rethink who the best fighter is, not just in this situation.

The fight is the fight.

 

[legkicktko]

I like Max but he clearly lost the championship rounds in the 2nd fight. Like someone else pointed out Reyes v Jones was the real robbery

That was a robbery imo.

I watched it twice and was never able to give Jones 3 rounds. At least not according to scoring criteria.

 

[mangokush]

Yes

Max had his chance in the 2nd fight but he coasted the last 3 rounds

Max is to blame for that loss
It was what it is

 

[fortheo]

It depends on whether or not you're a max holloway fan.

 

[Ares Black]

That is a fair point.

Look at media scores, it was 18 for Max, and 9 for Volk.

Like it or not (not directed at you), it is statistically improbable that only 1/3 of media scores were for Volk but he got 2/3 of the ringside judges. Objectively speaking, everyone knows ringside judges really suck. All of this context matters in my opinion. This, in conjunction with the fact that people like D'amato are still judging, makes me rethink who the best fighter is, not just in this situation.

The fight is the fight.

If they fight again I will pick Volkanovski. I like Holloway and think he's the second best FW in the UFC.

 

[legkicktko]

Robbery has a clear definition.

It is when a fighter who clearly lost the fight is awarded the decision. If a fight is close, it cannot be a robbery.

To your point, there are fights that are so close that they are basically subjective.

Examples:
Moraes-Aldo (Media scores 9-9, no consensus)
Yoel-Costa (media scores 10-10, no consensus)

Cannot possibly be robbery in either direction due to lack of consensus.

However, in my estimation and just my opinion, a fight can be close, but be clear.
Examples:
Jones-Reyes (Media scores 14-7 in favor of Reyes)
Barboza-Ige (Media-scores 15-2 in favor of Barboza)

Both of those were close fights. However, I personally consider them robberies based on the following.

There was consensus regarding the winner among fans and media scores. The ringside judges are in the far minority. Consequently, the only thing keep them from their wins were minority opinions of the ringside judges (who notoriously suck).

That is my definition. If the vast majority of people understand that fighter X won, but the judges have a very unusual opinion that fighter Y won, I consider it a robbery, close or not. just my opinion.

 

[AerialPingPong]

Serious question.

I'm not letting two basement dwellers who know nothing of fighting to tell me who the best featherweight in the world is.

As far as I'm concerned, Max is #1 and his first title defense since regaining his place was against Calvin Kattar and what a performance it was.

Judges have way too much say into our sport. It sucks ass, because we are tuning in to watch who is the better fighter among two individuals who weigh in the same the day before. Instead of that purity being the determining factor, judges and refs also have a say in history and I'm not a better, but I can't imagine contending with those intangible factors when betting on MMA is hard enough. It's not enough to predict a sport with this many variables but you also have to factor in consistent, pervasive, and inexcusable human error? No thanks.

Make it 3 dwellers

 

[LetThemBleed]

Serious question.

I'm not letting two basement dwellers who know nothing of fighting to tell me who the best featherweight in the world is.

As far as I'm concerned, Max is #1 and his first title defense since regaining his place was against Calvin Kattar and what a performance it was.

Judges have way too much say into our sport. It sucks ass, because we are tuning in to watch who is the better fighter among two individuals who weigh in the same the day before. Instead of that purity being the determining factor, judges and refs also have a say in history and I'm not a better, but I can't imagine contending with those intangible factors when betting on MMA is hard enough. It's not enough to predict a sport with this many variables but you also have to factor in consistent, pervasive, and inexcusable human error? No thanks.

 

[LetThemBleed]

Holloway got robbed last fight. He's the best

I hate how casually people throw the word robbed around on here, it loses all meaning when legitimate ridiculous robberies like Pearson Sanchez occur.
Robbed?

 

[Stop Being Greedy]

He very clearly won the first fight. He had a rough start in the rematch, credit to Holloway, but again Volkanovski showed he was better when he took over in that one with the momentum shift starting in the 3rd round that kept building from there. There was no question by the end of the fight who was winning, finishing stronger, and would've continued to do so had the fight gone on.

His resume is ridiculous with the Mendes, Aldo, and Holloway trifecta. Until proven otherwise, he is the best FW. Ortega 2.0 has a chance to dethrone him and become that dude, but Holloway would literally have to beat him twice just to even the score. I know it hurts people because he's a fan favorite and a nice guy, but Holloway is no longer the champion and he is years away from even having the potential to be considered better than Volkanovski.

 

[legkicktko]

I hate how casually people throw the word robbed around on here, it loses all meaning when legitimate ridiculous robberies like Pearson Sanchez occur.
Robbed?

Read my post above regarding defining robbery.

Let me know your thoughts.

PS. I watched that fight live and was horrified as I was a Pearson fan. lol.

 

[TheMessiah]

I can't call somebody a champ when they avoid the fight

 

[LetThemBleed]

Read my post above regarding defining robbery.

Let me know your thoughts.

PS. I watched that fight live and was horrified as I was a Pearson fan. lol.

You might be onto something regarding robberies but I'd argue a significant reason why so many people think Max won was the unbelievably biased commentary in that fight, Bisping was still going on about Holloway putting in a championship win worthy performance midway in the 4th when it was clear the fight's momentum had turned. The decision basically comes down to the 3rd round, most agree Max won the first two and Volkanovski the last 2. Watch just the 3rd round again, without Bisping's commentary, in isolation, and come back and tell me if you'd still clearly give that round to Max. It's razor close but I give that round to Volkanovski and thus gave him the win 3 rounds to 2. It's way way too close to even remotely suggest a robbery, regardless of the split in fans/media scoring.

 

[daltonames]

"Judges have way too much say into our sport ..."

 

[LetThemBleed]

I can't call somebody a champ when they avoid the fight

Ngl I don't get your point Volkanovski had more significant strikes than Holloway in both fights. Sure Holloway landed the more impactful shots in the second fight but to suggest Volkanovski avoided the fight is a bit ridiculous. If he wanted to avoid the fight he could have easily gone on the defensive in the championship rounds of the 2nd fight and lost a clear cut decision instead he fought back and that's why he's still champion today.

 

[TheMessiah]

Ngl I don't get your point Volkanovski had more significant strikes than Holloway in both fights. Sure Holloway landed the more impactful shots in the second fight but to suggest Volkanovski avoided the fight is a bit ridiculous. If he wanted to avoid the fight he could have easily gone on the defensive in the championship rounds of the 2nd fight and lost a clear cut decision instead he fought back and that's why he's still champion today.

Did you watch the fight? He's literally throwing leg kicks not to do damage but to score points. When he's going for takedowns he's trying influence the takedown stats instead of looking for ground and pound or submissions.

 

[joed5655]

Can’t we just agree that Max is more fun?

 

[LetThemBleed]

Did you watch the fight? He's literally throwing leg kicks not to do damage but to score points. When he's going for takedowns he's trying influence the takedown stats instead of looking for ground and pound or submissions.

Did you? After 2 rounds everyone including the commentators were about ready to crown Max as the champion again, hell Bisping was doing so well into the 4th and 5th. Volk outstruck Max by at least double digits in rounds 3-5, he went after Max knowing he was behind on the scorecards. And shock horror he varied up his attack with takedowns, Holloway has what been submitted once in his career about a decade ago, and you're unhappy Volk didn't go all out attempting a sub? Was hard enough to keep him down for any time in that fight let alone attempt a sub.

 

[wheel2wheel]

I think he is the greatest featherweight in the world, ever.

 

[TheMessiah]

Did you? After 2 rounds everyone including the commentators were about ready to crown Max as the champion again, hell Bisping was doing so well into the 4th and 5th. Volk outstruck Max by at least double digits in rounds 3-5, he went after Max knowing he was behind on the scorecards. And shock horror he varied up his attack with takedowns, Holloway has what been submitted once in his career about a decade ago, and you're unhappy Volk didn't go all out attempting a sub? Was hard enough to keep him down for any time in that fight let alone attempt a sub.

Outstruck looks good on paper, but he was point fighting and not looking to do any damage. Those are the worst type of fighters imo. I do think the fight was close btw and that Volk won on points