Does a match need to end in submission to be exciting?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by dokomoy, May 13, 2014.

  1. dokomoy

    dokomoy Green Belt

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    Taken from the most recent Copa Podio thread

    I don't mean to single out ThatBJJGuy because he's alone in thinking this way(for example there are multiple youtube channels that film matches and only upload them if the match ends in submission many people point to the lack of finishes to explain why bjj isn't spectator friendly etc).

    I love a good submission as much as the next guy but I've never understood this line of thinking. Not only are cool sweeps and guard passes exciting but in a lot of matches the finish is the least exciting part. As cool as watching Buchecha jump on a leg from out of nowhere watching someone spend 3 minutes handfighting to finish the back choke is incredibly boring - usually much more so than the series of events that led to getting the back in the first place.

    I'm curios to hear what everyone else thinks. Am I crazy or are submissions not as big of a deal as we make them out to be(at least from an entertainment perspective)?
     
  2. GuardOfDoom

    GuardOfDoom Yellow Belt

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    I enjoy good, evenly matched matches even without submissions. But I am personally disappointed if I can't finish a match with a sub, especially if I position ally dominated him.

    I don't think a submission makes a match exciting, it's the fight between the two competitors to impose their respective games that makes it exciting. The closer it is, the more the balance shifts, the more it is exciting. But if it ends in a sub, that is the best.
     
  3. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I don't think subs necessarily make matches more exciting. I like seeing one and they can be exciting, but they're not necessary any more than a pin is necessary for a wrestling match to be exciting or a KO is necessary for an MMA fight to be exciting. I've seen boring subs (as amazing as he is, Roger mounting and cross choking people was often pretty routine and not that exciting) and exciting decisions (Viera-Buchecha at Mundials last year comes to mind). I just want to see action, movement, and good technique.

    And BTW BJJ will never be a spectator sport any more than wrestling is. Unlike football or MMA, you have to understand it to want to watch it, and no one really understands it other than people who train.
     
  4. dokomoy

    dokomoy Green Belt

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    Yea, I agree with this and it's worth pointing out that the more evenly matched the competitors are the less likely you are to see a submission.

    I agree with this too, I only mentioned it because it's one of the main arguments people make when they argue about the importance of submissions.
     
  5. junco

    junco Blue Belt

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    No. Case in point: Eddie Bravo x Royler Gracie 2.
     
  6. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    No, but then again for the amount of shit this forum has thrown toward WKF, WTF and the IJF, you are quite content as BJJ evolves into a sport instead of "keepin' it real".
     
  7. BJJArsenal

    BJJArsenal Brown Belt

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    Definitely not. Hell, one of the Miyaos had a no-gi match with Jackson Sousa a while back with no points or advantages scored that was really exciting and great to watch. Shame I can't find it anymore.
     
  8. dmwalking

    dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

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    I don't care so much about the finish as much as I want to see guys going for the kill.


    For example, I didn't really enjoy Rafa/Clark, but I did enjoy Babalu/Lister. Neither ended in a finish, but one definitely showed two fighters looking to finish.
     
  9. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    It's a bit anti-climactic, but they can be exciting. Roger vs Buchecha being the prime example.
     
  10. Ianblastermaste

    Ianblastermaste White Belt

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    Of all the wrestling matches I've seen, none have ended in submission, yet I loved all of them.
     
  11. kintana

    kintana Purple Belt

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    No i dont think so. But there is something satisfying about watching a match end in a submission.

    I personally did not find Caio Terra Vs Jeff Glover in metamoris 1 that great in fact I remember when Jeff was playing around thinking I can't believe I paid money for this guy to give his butt. But Caio finished so it was a decent fight.

    Eddie vs Royler and Roger vs Buchecha were great fights without submission. Buchecha vs Rodolfo was also good back in worlds and there was no submission.

    I think playing footsie and double guard pulls are what makes matches boring.
     
  12. ThatBJJGuy

    ThatBJJGuy Brown Belt

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    lol! nothing against Lo TS ..his style and his guard is great ..he has great sweeps

    I just dont find him exciting... his style isnt for me.... theres loads of matches that dont end with a finish but are exciting as fuck! i dont mind

    :)
     
  13. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Nah, you do not need a submission for every match to enjoy.

    BUT I can understand some people will be fans of finishers (guys that do finish fights with subs).

    no big deal.
     
  14. UniqueSteez

    UniqueSteez Be water my friend. Platinum Member

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    I don't think a match has to end by a submission in order for it to be exciting, seeing the constant back and forth battle for dominant position but yet no finish is very exciting to watch. I feel more rewarded when I have a good battle on the ground continuously changing positions then when I do when I simply get the submissions sometimes.
     
  15. Leify

    Leify Ebb and Flow

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    I've seen a guy choked out from a gator roll. I wouldn't say it was more exciting than usual.

    The finish itself isn't necessarily exciting, but the savage pursuit of it is. It's a huge factor in why Rodolfo has such awesome matches even when he's ravaging guys.
     
  16. mattemate

    mattemate Brown Belt

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    Most definitely. Maybe the best match I've ever seen. It was certainly a passing of the torch, if nothing else.
     
  17. Panky Rang

    Panky Rang Blue Belt

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    As long as both guys are going for it I dont think a match needs to end in a sub to be exciting
     

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