Social Doctor drops disturbing information to congress in regards to second trimester abortion

nm dont care about abortion debates
 
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ocean size said:
I don't think anyone has an issue with that though. There's just a lot of philosophical space between potential human life, and human life with all the same rights and autonomy as the mother. If there wasn't, we'd have an issue with extra fertilised eggs in the ivf clinic. Those are potential human lives.
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This is where we get into the reverse of Theseus' boat.

When is a bridge a bridge? The collection of wood and rope on opposing banks of the river? The transition from wood to planks and tied via rope with foundation on either side? Is that now a bridge? A protruding set of planks from foundation that has yet to be connected? Is that a bridge? When is it a bridge? What condition does it have to be in to be considered a bridge?

Now take "person" or "human".... when is it? Cluster of cells. When there's a pupil? What about fingers? Is that a human? What about neural firing in the brain stem? Is that a human? And even when you finish that thought experiment.... When is a human a "person"?

But nah, let's just go "omg procedures are gross. ew. libs probably eat them"
 
MilesAbove said:
Now take "person" or "human".... when is it? Cluster of cells. When there's a pupil? What about fingers? Is that a human? What about neural firing in the brain stem? Is that a human? And even when you finish that thought experiment.... When is a human a "person"?
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As somebody who cares about the environment, I say we take this brilliant line of reasoning to its logical conclusion by defining concepts out of existence.
Let's start 'terminating' the prison population first imo, can they be considered persons if they demonstrated they can't live cooperatively among persons?
Then maybe the people incapable of self sufficiency, do their thinner frontal cortexes and slightly slower neuron firing rates really make them "people"? What are "people" though?
I like your eugenic slant buddeh, would serve well to improve society. After all isn't that the goal?
 
MikeMcMann said:
Sperm is a live organism. That is why
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MilesAbove said:
This is where we get into the reverse of Theseus' boat.

When is a bridge a bridge? The collection of wood and rope on opposing banks of the river? The transition from wood to planks and tied via rope with foundation on either side? Is that now a bridge? A protruding set of planks from foundation that has yet to be connected? Is that a bridge? When is it a bridge? What condition does it have to be in to be considered a bridge?

Now take "person" or "human".... when is it? Cluster of cells. When there's a pupil? What about fingers? Is that a human? What about neural firing in the brain stem? Is that a human? And even when you finish that thought experiment.... When is a human a "person"?

But nah, let's just go "omg procedures are gross. ew. libs probably eat them"
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I think the two essential features of a human being are a brain and a body. Therefore once there is a brain inside the mother's womb, abortion becomes immoral. I'm religious but don't subscribe to substance dualism. I'm an emergent dualist.
 
MilesAbove said:
This is where we get into the reverse of Theseus' boat.

When is a bridge a bridge? The collection of wood and rope on opposing banks of the river? The transition from wood to planks and tied via rope with foundation on either side? Is that now a bridge? A protruding set of planks from foundation that has yet to be connected? Is that a bridge? When is it a bridge? What condition does it have to be in to be considered a bridge?

Now take "person" or "human".... when is it? Cluster of cells. When there's a pupil? What about fingers? Is that a human? What about neural firing in the brain stem? Is that a human? And even when you finish that thought experiment.... When is a human a "person"?
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Are you just throwing this argument out there who do you think it has any real merit to it? A human isn't full grown until many years down the line. So why would a fetus not be considered a human being? A bridge is a far cry from being a good analogy to a human being. They are man made structures meant to for transportation. Until it's completed it can't serve it's man made purpose. I don't see how that has any connection to a growing human being. It's just two different things. A person is just an individual so anyone can try to argue their own perception of what an individual is. A fetus is an individual because it's a separate living human being.
 
MilesAbove said:
I can't believe this video is still giving conservatives the feeling they're about to win an argument. If you weren't so disconnected from the thing you fight again, you'd already know about this. The speech is an emotion play because the fetus is already non-viable during these actions.

None of what he talks about negates the fact it should be legal and safe.

Just because this dude decided to become an evangelical, doesn't do anything for the argument.
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They did already know about this. They find it amazing that the pro choice side is really trying to defend this as being moral.

Talking about human death and dismemberment should be emotional. I don't see what viability has to do with anything. It's ok to kill a human as long as it's dependent on another human?

There is nothing "safe" about ripping a part a baby because people don't want to be responsible for it. Whether or not he is religious has nothing to do with anything. You think only religious people are pro life?
 
MikeMcMann said:
So you define life and what is worth protecting by 'life span'?

So a life with short life span is worth less? Am I reading that correctly?
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A sperm is in no way a human being so my response here is I don't now why it's even being brought up in the discussion.
 
IamStryker said:
A sperm is in no way a human being so my response here is I don't now why it's even being brought up in the discussion.
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Some religious folks believe life begins with the sperm and ova meaning they are looking at the 'potential' of what this can grow or form into before many would consider it a viable entity or person. That is the discussion that is also happening in womb once sperm and egg are introduced. At what point is it wrong to interfere? Is the morning after pill wrong because it may prevent sperm and egg from meeting or force a newly fertilized egg to shed? Is the moment after the egg is fertilized a 'human' or does that happen after once a brain, heart and other things are present. The 'every sperm is sacred' joke in Monty Python about the Catholics is true too many. So it is important when discussing this issue to see where each person draws their own line so we have that frame of reference.
 
Dude live your own damn life and let other people do whatever they want with their body.

I feel sorry for people who constantly want to push their own morals and belief system onto others. You can fuck right off with your sense of higher moral ground.

With that said: I wouldn't want my partner to go through an abortion.
 
PoundForPound said:
Dude live your own damn life and let other people do whatever they want with their body.

I feel sorry for people who constantly want to push their own morals and belief system onto others. You can fuck right off with your sense of higher moral ground.

With that said: I wouldn't want my partner to go through an abortion.
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A fetus is not their body. Did you watch the video? You really don't think there is something wrong with him cutting up and pulling out body parts like that?

Oh morals is the problem. We should just do away with our laws because who are we to say what is moral right? Murder, theft, rape, incest should all be legal.
 
IamStryker said:
A fetus is not their body. Did you watch the video? You really don't think there is something wrong with him cutting up and pulling out body parts like that?

Oh morals is the problem. We should just do away with our laws because who are we to say what is moral right? Murder, theft, rape, incest should all be legal.
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Do you eat animals?
 
I'm pro-choice

There's a difference between a one month fetus and and a 6 month baby.
 
There’s a difference between a 6 month-old baby and a 30 year-old, too. Pro-abortionists have thrown out arbitrary cutoffs for when it is ok to terminate a life in development.
 
IamStryker said:
A sperm is in no way a human being so my response here is I don't now why it's even being brought up in the discussion.
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That's what trolls do. They try to shit up the discussions
 
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