"Do you want it?"

It's kinda hard to coach if your fighter is doing the best he can and it isn't enough
 
He looked mentally defeated which was a little disappointing to see. Hopefully he doesn't go into some kind of deep depression from this.
 
PinkFlammingo said:
I can't disagree with you, but the key thing is he wasn't performing technically. he is an olympian for christ sake, and he was being pushed against the cage, which im sure was the exact gameplan Cormier wanted to do, to grind Jones out. Lighting a fire under a guys ass, who isn't winning in any aspect, can have a serious downfall.
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Whilst that is true, DC's corner could have just thought that DC has been wrestling for most of his life and that the technical aspect of that situation was something he was privy to. They may have just thought that Cormier had broken, which he had, and that he needed that fire under his ass to get him going.

I can't speak of how good JM and BC are at talking to their fighters in between rounds, I don't tend to pay much attention in that time period. I also can't speak to AKA's motives for their inter-round coaching, I'm just trying to rationalize it for the sake of the discussion. I do however believe that in cases of a fighter needing to wake up, saying things like "do you want it?" can be constructive.

I disagree with the last statement as a generalization, it is true as a rule of thumb, but there are also exceptions. Tim Boetsch against Okami is a prime example of just waking up a dude who has mentally shut down and amping him up to go after it.
 
TdotK said:
He didn't mentally break. Jones' wrist control wouldn't allow DC to get anything off after the 2nd round.
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Cormier Broke at the end of the 4th round. In the 5th he stopped trying to win the fight and pretty much just wanted to take Jones down so Jones wouldn't have the pleasure of saying he completely shut down Cormier's wrestling.
 
DrHouse said:
I do however believe that in cases of a fighter needing to wake up, saying things like "do you want it?" can be constructive.

I disagree with the last statement as a generalization, it is true as a rule of thumb, but there are also exceptions. Tim Boetsch against Okami is a prime example of just waking up a dude who has mentally shut down and amping him up to go after it.
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Once again you are definitely right. I'm not saying that that is the worst strategy ever...But at the same time amping someone up who cannot solve the range game with Jones, could be an introduction for a flash KO. Just was annoyed that I kept hearing the same lines from his corner
 
Roaming East said:
Whats funny is i and pretty much every other non hugger predicted that exact scenario. My facebook post as of yesterday was 'DC goes for takedowns in the first, gets stuffed, clinches up but gets battered, gases in the second, dominated from there on out to a decision victory to jones.
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so what you're saying is you were wrong?

Cormier won the majority of clinch exchanges going into the 4th round.

Jones had better kicks, and landed a bit from outside.

In the clinch he was chewing on uppercuts and hooks.
 
PinkFlammingo said:
Once again you are definitely right. I'm not saying that that is the worst strategy ever...But at the same time amping someone up who cannot solve the range game with Jones, could be an introduction for a flash KO. Just was annoyed that I kept hearing the same lines from his corner
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There is definitely some incompetency when you're telling a guy one thing that isn't working then continue to tell him the same thing, but Jon really is a special fighter, one for whom DC didn't show up with the skills to beat. You can't really tell a guy "be stronger in the clinch", which some corners do and it annoys me, guys aren't choosing to get tossed around.

It's a tough situation, I do sympathize with the corner to some extent. What exactly do you tell a guy who is being beaten up and has no viable option for turning it around? Like I said, I don't know how good AKA are at cornering guys, but I do know they're a great camp. If they couldn't figure out how to get DC to mount real offense against Jon, it's gonna be a tough ask for anyone.
 
DrHouse said:
There is definitely some incompetency when you're telling a guy one thing that isn't working then continue to tell him the same thing, but Jon really is a special fighter, one for whom DC didn't show up with the skills to beat. You can't really tell a guy "be stronger in the clinch", which some corners do and it annoys me, guys aren't choosing to get tossed around.

It's a tough situation, I do sympathize with the corner to some extent. What exactly do you tell a guy who is being beaten up and has no viable option for turning it around? Like I said, I don't know how good AKA are at cornering guys, but I do know they're a great camp. If they couldn't figure out how to get DC to mount real offense against Jon, it's gonna be a tough ask for anyone.
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Thanks for playing devils advocate, and not being a "typical sherdogger". Good points my friend
 
Stwonnie said:
so what you're saying is you were wrong?

Cormier won the majority of clinch exchanges going into the 4th round.

Jones had better kicks, and landed a bit from outside.

In the clinch he was chewing on uppercuts and hooks.
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uhh, no. Jones started winning the clinch game late round 2 and was clearly dominating it from 3 on. He was grabbing DC's wrist and preventing him from landing strikes which is easily reflected in fight metric scoring in strikes landed and effective striking. DC losing the clinch game was WHY he loss the match to begin with because he certainly wasnt trying to impart his wrestling game. It was almost 5 rounds of nothing but striking.
 
PinkFlammingo said:
First off, I should say that yes I was going for Cormier, and yes Jones did a fantastic job of controlling the range, pace, and ultimately using cormiers game plan against him by using the cage to his advantage.... BUT the purpose of this thread is to see everyones opinion on Cormiers corner.

- Is it just me or is the continual "do you want it" between rounds in Cormiers corner (AKA) just plain stupid?

- Not to take away from Jones' dominant performance, but seriously, give the guy some technical advice... just saying
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What part of them telling him that he needed takedown(s) EARLY in the championship rounds did you seriously disagree with. DC was far from "winning" the standup to that point, so it seemed to some degree an intelligent plan.

Round two was close, and had DC been able to follow his corners advice and ground/ ride Bones in rounds 4 and 5 the decision would be freaky close IMO.

The truth is his corner knew by the end of round 3 that he had little chance of winning in the standup with Jon's 12" reach advantage. It simply had NOT played out like they expected and DC was NOT able to overpower Jones in the clinch!

Short of his corner sending DC's teammate in to complete a TD on Jones and "wrestleF" him to victory in rounds 4 and 5, they did right IMO.
 
neomage2021 said:
Javier Mendez was way way to0 frantic in there. He sounded very worried. Compare that to Jackson and Winklejohn. They are calm and give the advice their fighter needs
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That's because Jackson's MMA crushes AKA in title fights
 
TdotK said:
He didn't mentally break. Jones' wrist control wouldn't allow DC to get anything off after the 2nd round.
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He did mentally break because he was going for a takedown instead of trying to strike with Jones in the fifth when a takedown would have been too little too late.

He wasted precious time and energy for a "moral" victory of landing one takedown on Jones.
 
He was broken by the 4th round. Wanting it was not enough but technical advice probably wouldn't have helped him either.
 
Brujesino said:
They did give him advice but they opened up with "Do you want it?".

They were probably thinking saying that would motivate him but DC's answer was "I'm Trying" and it caught them off guard.
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Lol trying to want it
 
It was just them trying to fire up their fighter.

He seemed to do well early, then gassed and looked like he sort of lost the will after that. His look on the stool in between rounds just looked "off" to me at that point. Kind of like he was not mentally sharp and coherent. I'm sure he was likely just exhausted.
 
It depends on the fighter. I know some fighters dont respond well to stuff like that, and then others really get riled up and come out to brawl when you challenge their pride
 
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