Do you see fights like Esparza/Jedzrejczyk and Horiguchi/Gaudinot on PPV and think...

fightdonttweet said:
Flyweight would be more popular if Mighty Mouse weren't the champ. Extremely talented guy, just has no charisma, little knockout ability and no star quality.

I think the reason they made the division in the first place was to give Joe B a belt. Unfortunately it didn't play out that way. The best thing for the division would be for Dodson to win the title via brutal knockout and get a champion v. champion rematch with Dillashaw.
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I am not entertained by flyweight.

Dodson won't win by brutal KO, but your scenario would be cool for the UFC; definitely not for the flyweight division.
 
Skydome said:
It's silly to judge fighters based off one performance.

It was actually a beautiful fight by Horiguchi, his control of distance was some of the best I've ever seen and his karate attacks were amazing. Gaudinot is a tough SOB or else he would have been knocked out sometime in round 2. Even if you don't agree with what I just said, the man is a killer.

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I don't think Horiguchi landed many great shots against Gaudinot to be honest. I do agree that he has shown his skills like you mentioned, footwork, crisp striking etc. Just not often enough IMO. And Gaudinot wasn't good at all.

The point is not that I judge him based off this one fight, it was just an example. If the new divisions get the chance to be on PPV, they should deliver or otherwise the hate will become even stronger. Of course it's easier said than done, because after all the W is the most important goal for the fighters, not to entertain us.
 
Lucifer Alpha said:
My line is when the talent drops off. The fact that you equate someone like Demetrious Johnson with a midget who can barely walk makes me seriously question your intelligence and perception of martial arts.
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I didn't equate DJ with a midget and perceiving that I did makes me seriously question your intelligence and ability to stay rational when it comes to certain topics like the particularly little guys. I was listing lower and lower weight divisions below 125, until I got down to midget. Hell, midget was below a 105 listing. Read before you respond, or don't let an agenda drive your statements as they have a few times already on this issue alone.
 
Yeah, it's way better than when they stuff random ass heavyweights or Hans Stringer on the main card of a PPV.
 
What about Shogun, Mir etc. being on the main card of a PPV...
 
How is Horiguchi/Gaudinot different than Machida/Hoger?
 
JonSnitchPhones said:
I didn't equate DJ with a midget and perceiving that I did makes me seriously question your intelligence and ability to stay rational when it comes to certain topics like the particularly little guys. I was listing lower and lower weight divisions below 125, until I got down to midget. Hell, midget was below a 105 listing. Read before you respond.
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Yes, you were assuming that anyone who enjoys flyweight would also be open to any half-assed division beneath it, including midgets. Have you ever seen a real midget? They can barely move, let alone fight. The comparison is retarded. I like DJ because he's incredibly talented. The fuck am I gonna find a midget who can fight like that? Midget fights look more like heavyweight if anything.
 
JonSnitchPhones said:
I didn't equate DJ with a midget and perceiving that I did makes me seriously question your intelligence and ability to stay rational when it comes to certain topics like the particularly little guys. I was listing lower and lower weight divisions below 125, until I got down to midget. Hell, midget was below a 105 listing. Read before you respond, or don't let an agenda drive your statements as they have a few times already on this issue alone.
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What's better for the UFC, for Sergio Pettis to be a top 20 guy at bantamweight or for him to be a potential contender at 125? Whilst you said it yourself that you'd be okay with him making a career out of fighting guys like Bruce Leory, wouldn't it be more interesting to see him make a run in his more natual weight division of 125 and possibly grow into 135 later?

I'm with Rav on his cutoff point, mine is when fighters stop being interesting to watch or they lose the "danger" aspect. So that's probably 125 for the men. I don't know any fighters below 125 that can punch like Dodson or has the takedowns of Mighty Mouse.
 
Lucifer Alpha said:
Yes, you were assuming that anyone who enjoys flyweight would also be open to any half-assed division beneath it, including midgets. Have you ever seen a real midget? They can barely move, let alone fight. The comparison is retarded. I like DJ because he's incredibly talented. The fuck am I gonna find a midget who can fight like that? Midget fights look more like heavyweight if anything.
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Thinking it was a comparison is what was retarded. I was asking where the line was. 115? 105? I didn't really think you enjoyed watching midgets, the reference was more for hyperbole, but who knows what you like. The point is, there's gotta be a line where you won't get self-righteous that people aren't normally keen on watching fighters of that weight.

There are exceptions like I keep saying, but I don't see talent on the whole at 125. It's a small percentage of men who can get their body weight that low healthily, and then a smaller percentage who can maintain a reasonable amount of power. 135 is more doable. Barao has a broad back, Caceres is 5'10" while not being crazy skinny, same thing with Dantas. They can maintain enough power to keep me interested on average, while being fast, and possessing cardio. At 125 the drop-off is noticeable, that's what I'm responding to.
 
JonSnitchPhones said:
Thinking it was a comparison is what was retarded. I was asking where the line was. 115? 105? I didn't really think you enjoyed watching midgets, the reference was more for hyperbole, but who knows what you like. The point is, there's gotta be a line where you won't get self-righteous that people aren't normally keen on watching fighters of that weight.
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I don't really get your issue considering you said 130 was your cutoff point in boxing and boxers cut less weight than fighters in general. Flyweights are 140 come fight time.

...and why do you have a flyweight av?
 
I don't agree with your thought process TS; it has far too many generalizations.
 
Cejudo, Dodson, Mighty Mouse, Cruz, Dillashaw, Faber(depending on matchup), Caldwell (Bellator prospect) are all fighters I don't mind seeing on PPV, everyone else at 125 or 135lbs, i'd rather see on the free shows and not on the PPVs.
 
Skydome said:
What's better for the UFC, for Sergio Pettis to be a top 20 guy at bantamweight or for him to be a potential contender at 125? Whilst you said it yourself that you'd be okay with him making a career out of fighting guys like Bruce Leory, wouldn't it be more interesting to see him make a run in his more natual weight division of 125 and possibly grow into 135 later?
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I think he can be much better than top 20 at bw. At 20 years old, he was on his way to beating the aforementioned top 15 Bruce Leeroy, then he made a series of mental mistakes late to lose. I'm not really averse to him moving down to 125, because it's there, and may well be better for his career at this point. But this isn't about mini Pettis. The UFC's decisions on what to do with a division shouldn't be centered around him. That's a mistake they may have made with Ronda.

I'm with Rav on his cutoff point, mine is when fighters stop being interesting to watch or they lose the "danger" aspect. So that's probably 125 for the men. I don't know any fighters below 125 that can punch like Dodson or has the takedowns of Mighty Mouse.
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They could bring some of that dynamic to 135, while not having their talents diluted among a division that on the whole isn't very interesting. Cherry picking from 125 could spruce up interest in 135.
 
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Lucifer Alpha said:
I don't really get your issue considering you said 130 was your cutoff point in boxing and boxers cut less weight than fighters in general. Flyweights are 140 come fight time.
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Boxers can just as much weight as mixed martial artists if they want. Steve Forbes used to be like 150 in the ring and that's why he eventually moved up in weight. I liked Casamayor and he didn't look very small. Eventually he too moved up a couple of classes. The exceptions at 125 that I can appreciate more probably cut more weight than average.

...and why do you have a flyweight av?[/QUOTE]

It's a joke. Man, you're trying way too hard to find an inconsistency. You don't think I know which weight Nobre competes at?
 
JonSnitchPhones said:
It's a joke. Man, you're trying way too hard to find an inconsistency. You don't think I know which weight Nobre competes at?
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Are you a fan of Nobre? I remember your sig said something about him as well. Just seems kinda random to be a joke you expect me to get.
 
theanticool said:
Yeah, it's way better than when they stuff random ass heavyweights or Hans Stringer on the main card of a PPV.
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One extreme doesn't justify another. I didn't really argue for random ass heavyweights to be put on the main card of the ppv. That's for a different discussion. You can start another thread and maybe I'll chime in to back you up on that opinion.

Anyway, one thing I figured would happen in this discussion is people mainly projecting their own attitudes. I think empathy is a struggle for a lot of MMA fans for a variety of reasons. I won't argue that the UFC should put a bunch of women and flyweights on the ppv, if it benefits them overall financially. But just because they are doing it right now, that doesn't mean it's benefiting them. They are just doing it, while overall struggling financially and seemingly not changing much out of ego. They should be trying different things, based on the numbers, anecdotal evidence, as well as learning from other sports. One thing other athletic sports don't do is group women and men for the most obvious reason. This is the only one I can think of off hand that does.
 
Lucifer Alpha said:
Are you a fan of Nobre? I remember your sig said something about him as well. Just seems kinda random to be a joke you expect me to get.
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It's a picture of him with a neck brace after he faked an injury. You can safely deduce I'm not really a fan, and it was meant tongue in cheek.
 
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