do you practice triangles on both sides

[tekkenfan]

i can only triangle to one side i was just visualizing a transition where i could easily hit a triangle off a transition but realized my triangle sucks on the left side its something i feel i really need to get better at cause its just hurting me armlocks too

at blue i remember eddie bravo saying you dont have to bat left handed so i thought id b better to only do 1 side so ill be super good at that side but i find its hurt me i do practice escapes from side on both sides because you cant choose which side they pass to

anyways curious if any of you feel the same and what do you think of attacks on both sides

 

[INTERL0PER]

Like anyone, I have tendencies with all moves/positions. I tend to pass almost exclusively to my left for some reason.

Triangles are my move though, and I hit them on both sides. I think I probably hit it more with my right leg around the neck, but definitely land both sides pretty regularly.

 

[tekkenfan]

yeha my right leg is solid but left leg just the idea of it atm i dont think i could catch a white belt in one right now i really need to work my subs on both sides i can butterfly sweep with both legs i feel i can play guard to just 1 side but subs is something i have to learn t do both

 

[shunyata]

Like anyone, I have tendencies with all moves/positions. I tend to pass almost exclusively to my left for some reason.

Triangles are my move though, and I hit them on both sides. I think I probably hit it more with my right leg around the neck, but definitely land both sides pretty regularly.

My man.







But reggae jokes aside, many people will favor passing so that their strong side is closer to opponent when pressure passing (like right handed people passing to their left hand side so that their dominant hand can drop more pressure).



We should all train the other side anyway. You want the option to go either way, and it's better to even out the muscles in the long run.

 

[tekkenfan]

My man.







But reggae jokes aside, many people will favor passing so that their strong side is closer to opponent when pressure passing (like right handed people passing to their left hand side so that their dominant hand can drop more pressure).



We should all train the other side anyway. You want the option to go either way, and it's better to even out the muscles in the long run.

yeah but its hard to get all that also when balancing wrestling striking aswell hard to balance and improve with everything

 

[shunyata]

yeah but its hard to get all that also when balancing wrestling striking aswell hard to balance and improve with everything

If you think of a triangle as an attack like a punch, it's silly not to drill both sides. Do you go into a boxing gym and only throw rights all night? No you at least put up a left hook or a jab for each right. Both sides attack.

 

[Chandler sama]

It's ironic you say Eddie Bravo made you train only one side, because I train both sides because of him. He said Leo Veria beat him so bad because he kept passing to his "bad" side. I always train both sides and IMO its much easier than you think. I don't know how it is once you're already uneven, but I've found that just drilling everything on both sides and then trying things in sparring using both sides has made everything even for me. The only techniques that I favor you side or the other are guillotines(it feels akward doing it with my left hand and its slower) and RNC(my left arm feels like it only has 80% of the power/skill as my right). There are a few others that might have a slight reaction speed difference, but its pretty minor. Most of my techniques don't have a "handed-ness" to them. Its not hard to get both sides equal.

 

[tekkenfan]

It's ironic you say Eddie Bravo made you train only one side, because I train both sides because of him. He said Leo Veria beat him so bad because he kept passing to his "bad" side. I always train both sides and IMO its much easier than you think. I don't know how it is once you're already uneven, but I've found that just drilling everything on both sides and then trying things in sparring using both sides has made everything even for me. The only techniques that I favor you side or the other are guillotines(it feels akward doing it with my left hand and its slower) and RNC(my left arm feels like it only has 80% of the power/skill as my right). There are a few others that might have a slight reaction speed difference, but its pretty minor. Most of my techniques don't have a "handed-ness" to them. Its not hard to get both sides equal.

i didnt say he made me lol i said i saw a quote of him when asked about both sides back around 2007 and he said well u dont have to bat left handed in baseball

 

[Balto]

If you think of a triangle as an attack like a punch, it's silly not to drill both sides. Do you go into a boxing gym and only throw rights all night? No you at least put up a left hook or a jab for each right. Both sides attack.

Are we talking about practicing the same move on both sides or different moves for different sides? The two are distinct approaches. What you are describing is the second.

Someone in a boxing gym will typically throw 100% of their jabs with one hand and 100% of their crosses with another. It is extremely rare to switch stances halfway through and balance the two. Jabs and crosses are two entirely different moves with entirely different mechanics used for entirely different purposes. They complement each other well, but they are in no way the same move.

You see this in other forms of grappling as well. In Judo you typically grip with a certain handedness. If you face someone with an opposite grip, you don't typically switch your grip to the mirror version to use the same set of moves on the other side. You typically train a different set of moves for each side.

The BJJ equivalent of this would not be training the triangle on both sides. It would rather be something like only training the triangle with the opponent's right arm exposed. If the opponent exposes the other side, you would just attack with an omoplata instead.

I generally encourage different moves for different sides. It creates more variety in the game with less effort. Also each individual attack tends to be sharper.

If you pass to my right, I have one strong sweep. If you pass to my left, I have a different sweep that is also strong. This does not create a weak side that the opponent can exploit, but it's also quite a bit different than just training the same sweep on both sides equally.

 

[yetanother]

I generally encourage different moves for different sides. It creates more variety in the game with less effort. Also each individual attack tends to be sharper.

Never understood that approach. It takes comparatively little effort to do the same move on both sides while with different ones you have to figure out a new game. It takes longer to actually drill them and you need extra know how. Variety when your opponent can make a choice by getting to a different side is a drawback not a benefit.

 

[Balto]

It is actually very difficult for a human to detect the pattern during a roll. I think it is just a limitation on how our brains work. I've trained for years with the same black belts who still haven't figured it out.

For example, I just gave up doing triangles on my left side years ago. If you asked a bunch of black belts that I train with, I would be surprised if even 10% could point that out even if they thought about it for a while. It's a blind spot for most people.

I learned that principle from a top coach at ATOS actually. I think it is the common approach there. I see it from other top competitors as well.

If you watch tournament footage carefully and break it down, you will start to see the pattern of different moves to different sides if you look for it. A lot of the top coaches do this when preparing for a match. The reason it still works is that even when you detect the pattern beforehand and prepare for it, it is not easily exploitable.

 

[INTERL0PER]

I remember hearing Marcelo saying something similar.

You don't need to be able to do every move on both sides, but you do need SOMETHING for both sides; a knee slice for the right side, over under pass on the left, for example.

I can see the logic behind both philosophies, but find the Marcelo approach makes more sense for me, for some reason. I guess it's just that we all naturally have dominant sides for certain moves and I'd rather just go with that and do the moves the way they feel "natural" than devoting more time to becoming ambidextrous.

 

[nefti]

imho, you should just for the dexterity/movement benifits alone.

 

[RJ Green]

you should get good at one side then better at both for pretty much every technique. once you've repped stuff out you don't have to plan ahead. if you're in flow state, you tell your brain 'triangle' or 'far side armbar' and everything just goes accordingly.

 

[RJ Green]

it's like learning to ride switch while snowboarding. you'll be passable if you never do, but you will be so, so much better for it, and in a shitty situation it's the natural reaction instead of another thing to worry about

 

[TheMood]

At this point I only practice/drill the triangle with my left (weaker/not dominant) side. I hit it with my right enough that I don't bother to practice that side. Other techniques I try to drill both sides. I usually have a bad side and a terrible side still.

 

[dimmyfinster]

I



I learned that principle from a top coach at ATOS actually. I think it is the common approach there. I see it from other top competitors as well.

If you watch tournament footage carefully and break it down, you will start to see the pattern of different moves to different sides if you look for it. A lot of the top coaches do this when preparing for a match. The reason it still works is that even when you detect the pattern beforehand and prepare for it, it is not easily exploitable.

I dunno though. Take your ATOS example. If you play DLR when they stand with right leg forward, what do you do if they stick left leg forward? RDLR is just weaker in gi. 1LX has the same handedness issue.

Gui has said that he does he same technique on both sides but not to expect them to feel the same. And that's OK. For example, if you knee slide, the slide will feel stronger on your "strong" side. But the collar grip as you are sliding will be stronger when you go to your "weak" side. Playing DLR guard, your hook is weaker on one side, but the collar grip is stronger.


Also, a lot of "best move" had to do with body type and size and the human body is not that assymetric. That is, if you have long and thick legs, you are built for triangles on both sides more or less you just have to develop the skill. If you are light and quick, those attributes will dominate your passing far more than handedness, IMO.

 

[JustTheTip]

Are we talking about practicing the same move on both sides or different moves for different sides? The two are distinct approaches. What you are describing is the second.

Someone in a boxing gym will typically throw 100% of their jabs with one hand and 100% of their crosses with another. It is extremely rare to switch stances halfway through and balance the two. Jabs and crosses are two entirely different moves with entirely different mechanics used for entirely different purposes. They complement each other well, but they are in no way the same move.

You see this in other forms of grappling as well. In Judo you typically grip with a certain handedness. If you face someone with an opposite grip, you don't typically switch your grip to the mirror version to use the same set of moves on the other side. You typically train a different set of moves for each side.

The BJJ equivalent of this would not be training the triangle on both sides. It would rather be something like only training the triangle with the opponent's right arm exposed. If the opponent exposes the other side, you would just attack with an omoplata instead.

I generally encourage different moves for different sides. It creates more variety in the game with less effort. Also each individual attack tends to be sharper.

If you pass to my right, I have one strong sweep. If you pass to my left, I have a different sweep that is also strong. This does not create a weak side that the opponent can exploit, but it's also quite a bit different than just training the same sweep on both sides equally.

I agree and suggest this to people all the time. When you look at video, very few competitors use the exact same game on both sides.

Never understood that approach. It takes comparatively little effort to do the same move on both sides while with different ones you have to figure out a new game. It takes longer to actually drill them and you need extra know how. Variety when your opponent can make a choice by getting to a different side is a drawback not a benefit.

While it does make sense to be close to equal both sides, most grapplers have different techniques for different sides. I suspect it is because most people have different awareness and tendencies per side. Also in live rolls, opponents have different tendencies(usually right leg forward if passing guard) so one side gets a whole lot more experience. I don't think it is necessary to have the same attacks and counters per side, but it is important to have as many attacks and counters to the same defenses. I also think it is better to have different attacks because it makes you less predictable and harder to defend than having the exact same game every side.

 

[Balto]

I dunno though. Take your ATOS example. If you play DLR when they stand with right leg forward, what do you do if they stick left leg forward? RDLR is just weaker in gi. 1LX has the same handedness issue.

For your DLR example, I think "right handed" 1LX is with the opponent's left leg forward. I am right handed, and that is my strong side at least. So putting those two together for me does not create a handedness issue.

There are also plenty of options to pick from as well -- shin to shin guard, deep half, single leg takedown and come up, etc. So even if 1LX would create an issue on that side, you can just pick something else.

I agree with your observation that the handedness of many moves is not totally clear and you can still use some elements of your strong side even from the weak side version. To keep with the boxing example, I know some right handed guys who choose to fight southpaw. It improves their jab and confuses opponents more, thus offsetting the drawbacks somewhat.

One thing that hasn't been discussed yet is that there seems to be an implicit assumption that the opponent is 100% in control of which side he presents for attack. In reality you have quite a bit of control over which side you can attack.

Let's say I want to play guard against a right leg forward passer. Unfortunately my opponent comes forward with the left leg. I could just choose to play a guard against the left leg forward, but I have other options too. I could sweep at the left leg to force him to move it back, thus ending up with the right leg forward. I could just stand up myself, reestablish grips, create some movement from standing, and pull guard again after forcing his right leg forward by timing his steps.

That was another handedness trick I picked up from that coach. He said he would frequently guard one side of his gi with both hands while leaving the other side completely exposed. This would essentially force his opponent to grip on the exposed side. Of course a grip to that side was exactly what he had been drilling for so it went right into his game.

Watching people roll with him in the gym, just about everyone probably felt as if they reached that position totally naturally. But once he let you know what was going on, you could watch and suddenly see that despite going against a bunch of people with all different types of games, he was able to force that exact same position right off the bat the vast majority of the time. It was pretty neat to see and made a big impression on me at the time.

 

[Zankou]

it's like learning to ride switch while snowboarding. you'll be passable if you never do, but you will be so, so much better for it, and in a shitty situation it's the natural reaction instead of another thing to worry about

So much truth ... you will never be nearly as good switch, but it’s a marvelous thing to have in your arsenal.