Opinion Do you, or would you support a president that you didn't vote for?

[tangata motu'a]

Don’t see how this is a difficult question.

99% of the left would rather the country fail miserably then have him have even the tiniest bit of success. same when it is the other way around. so you are right, not a difficult question

 

[tangata motu'a]

I was ready to support Trump at first but he started off right away with the lying, acting as if he was above the law, and putting his own interests above the country. IMO it's very dangerous the way he's appointing loyalists and spreading propaganda.

The credit stealing, blame shifting, divider in chief. But at least he doesn't collect his salary, that wouldn't cover the cost for a day, of one of his taxpayer funded weekend trips to his clubs.

you happen to have any posts that demonstrate your support from around that time? I am guessing no

 

[Gandhi]

99% of the left would rather the country fail miserably then have him have even the tiniest bit of success. same when it is the other way around. so you are right, not a difficult question

I think the two case studies are telling.

Obama and the Republicans (who basically parroted the Tea party on austerity) and then you have the Dems on Trump.

I am just curious as to what policy Trump is/was pursuing that the Dems have opposed just because it was Trump doing it? Tax cuts for the rich? Deregulation of environmental protection? Gutting consumer protection provisions?

The Dems have been partisan in fighting Trump but I am still waiting for a policy they opposed that was the equivalent to the "cutting off your nose to spite your face" tactics the Republicans had when the Dems put a relativity much more moderate and cooperative president in the WH.

I also think you may be wrong here, my guess is people in general are tied to their tribal identities but tend to care much less about it than us folks arguing about politics on teh krote forum. We mostly don't want to see another civil war.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

The benefits are actually skewed toward the middle class and poor. And you were earlier talking about the trade deficit specifically. Kind of fishy when someone changes their reasoning and maintains the same position.

Putting that aside, I don't think there are communities that have been "hollowed out" solely as a result of trade with China. We have seen shifts in the economy, with new industries rising up and old ones losing importance that have helped some communities and hurt other ones. If that's a genuine concern, I think the response should be A) stabilization policy (an overall strong labor demand goes a long way toward fixing that kind of thing), B) a strong safety net for the transition, and C) easier access to education. Also, one method that has really worked for some towns has been investing in higher education, which attracts a lot of new money (and skilled immigrants) to the town and creates a lot of secondary effects related to bunching up of high-skill people, but that's a local rather than national issue. Those are all things that the GOP actively fights against.

lol at "fishy". I'm not "changing my "reasoning". What are you talking about? When Americans buy goods produced in China that could've been produced by Americans, that economic activity enriches the Chinese government, which uses its resources to do things like the OPM and Equifax hacks.

I never said communities are hollowed out "solely" as a result of trade with China, so that's a straw man. But it is a fact that the US imports more from China than any other country. Chinese imports as a percent of GDP went from .10% to .97% from 1986 to 2001 (China joined the WTO in Dec 2001). In the first 15 years post-China's joining the WTO Chinese imports as a percent of GDP went from 1.14% to 2.59% (2002 - 2017). From 1986 - 2001 median income (in 2018 $) went from $25,325 to $31,185 which is a 23.1% increase. From the 2002 - 2017 median income (in 2018 $) went from $30,959 to $32,561, which is a 5.2% increase.

It's no secret that manufacturing jobs have been declining (this of course started decades before China joined the WTO).

There's no question that the 1% (and especially the .01%) of Americans have done fantastic as the US has increased imports from China. For the average American though, that is simply not the case.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

But he did cut taxes for the rich and lift environmental regulations...

I didn't say he didn't.

 

[djacobox372]

I don't "support" any president, I support policies. Idolization is dangerous.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

“I don’t support trump but I’m gonna vote for him.”
Or “I didn’t vote for him the first time but now I will.”


anyone else sick of hearing this utter nonsense.

 

[oldshadow]

I would support Biden the same way the democrats have supported Trump.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

you happen to have any posts that demonstrate your support from around that time? I am guessing no

I probably wrote something good about his first state of the union address if you care to search but it didn't take long for him to prove he's unfit for the job. Didn't divest, didn't release his taxes, largest crowd ever, tapped my wires, etc...

 

[LangfordBarrow]

“I don’t support trump but I’m gonna vote for him.”
Or “I didn’t vote for him the first time but now I will.”


anyone else sick of hearing this utter nonsense.

There's a sucker born every minute.

 

[Jack V Savage]

lol at "fishy". I'm not "changing my "reasoning". What are you talking about? When Americans buy goods produced in China that could've been produced by Americans, that economic activity enriches the Chinese government, which uses its resources to do things like the OPM and Equifax hacks.

You were earlier talking about the trade deficit and misunderstanding what it meant, then you shifted to some other stuff that isn't connected. A trade deficit with another country means (after adjusting for misleading accounting stuff) that we're getting more goods and services from them, which is to our advantage (theoretically, it should reverse at some point, which would then be to their advantage--but the point is that at all times, the country with the deficit is better off).

Also, the trade deficit doesn't enrich the Chinese gov't at all. The economy is goods and services. You can't build stuff with money; it can just be a means of directing activity.

I never said communities are hollowed out "solely" as a result of trade with China, so that's a straw man.

So let's drop that silliness then, and we're back to your earlier misunderstanding.

There's no question that the 1% (and especially the .01%) of Americans have done fantastic as the US has increased imports from China. For the average American though, that is simply not the case.

The benefit to the average American of trade with China is about $10K a year, and that's skewed downward.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

There's a sucker born every minute.

Imagine knowing what you know now about the man and coming to the conclusion “well I didn’t vote for him before but now I will!!” As if he’s gotten better over time.

As if anyone with a brain believes any of that horse plop. These people voted for him before and they’ll do so again. Sabertruth is full of it

 

[nostradumbass]

Lol at the results. As it turns out, almost everyone would support someone they didn't vote for but coincidentally the person they didn't vote for has turned out to be the worst person in history whose every word and action destroys the planet every time. What are the odds?

 

[jrams]

I always want them to do what's best for the country and hope they are successful even if it is in contrast to how I think it should be done. However, you should be able to look at their accomplishments and be able to call them out though. It's why it is gross to me to see people wax poetic about W just because they hate Trump so much. W sucked. He let a foreign attack happen on our soil and used that fear and confusion to entrench us in perpetual war in the Middle East and strip away civil liberties that continue to be stripped away.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Obviously every decent person wants their country to prosper, succeed, be safe, and be peaceful.

But there are certain things that border on crimes against humanity. Such as the 2nd Iraq War.
It was disheartening to hear politicians talk of supporting the president, hearing from everyone about supporting the troops. What the hell was anyone supporting?
And then any criticism of the war was met with counters such as “what kind of message does that send the troops?” or “why do you hate America” or similar nonsense.
More nonsense with troops being credited with “defending their country” (BS).

And I know I’ll get abused for this, but it is messed up that the 9/11 attacks are the greatest tragedy but the Iraq War (which killed some 50x more people) is ok. I want my country to be morally better than this.

As a liberal, I have a HUGE problem with both Hilary and Biden for voting to authorize military force against Iraq.
And Trump, of all people, has the luxury of criticizing them (and the Bush administration) for it!

ps:
A dozen people died in a London tube bombing? OMG, what an awful tragedy. Front page, cover it every day for a month, many remembrances.
80 people in a Middle Eastern country were killed in a bombing?
Page 4, one article, then never mention it again, because nobody here cares.
Absolutely infuriating to live around people that believe this is ok!!!!

 

[Makani]

Margins of victory in the US are razor thin, and the differences in ideology are bigger and bigger. It's not some disagreement over waffles v. french toast or something, it's fundamental questions about the direction of the country. Now, not supporting a President and actively undermining him are a little different, but there's lots of grey.

 

[ocfightfan]

It depends on what you mean by support. I want America to do well so I want each President to be successful in the sense of defending and advancing America's interests. So I pray for every President and if they are doing what is right by the country then I support it in various ways.

 

[terrapin]

Shouldn't this be a rational way of thinking? You don't have to agree with all of the presidents policies, but you should want what's best for your country and want whoever is in office succeed regardless of their party affiliation.

I didn't vote for Bush, but I wanted him to succeed. I voted for Obama, but I didn't like all of his policies and thought there were things he could have handled better. I think Trump is doing a decent Job even though he doesn't act like the most professional person at times. I will vote for him over Biden in November, but will still support Joe if he gets elected.

I cant say I want a president who holds policy positions that i disagree with to succeed.

I can say that I support the elected president to be president and to govern to the best of his or her ability.

 

[Hadron90]

Yes. I'll pretty much always like whoever is President.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

You were earlier talking about the trade deficit and misunderstanding what it meant, then you shifted to some other stuff that isn't connected. A trade deficit with another country means (after adjusting for misleading accounting stuff) that we're getting more goods and services from them, which is to our advantage (theoretically, it should reverse at some point, which would then be to their advantage--but the point is that at all times, the country with the deficit is better off).

Also, the trade deficit doesn't enrich the Chinese gov't at all. The economy is goods and services. You can't build stuff with money; it can just be a means of directing activity.



So let's drop that silliness then, and we're back to your earlier misunderstanding.



The benefit to the average American of trade with China is about $10K a year, and that's skewed downward.

This is a classic case of one person trying to persuade people that what they see with their untrammeled vision isn't actually there.

US median income hasn't come close to doubling in the 18 years since China joined the WTO, let alone over any 11-year period since then.

Yes, Chinese selling goods to the rest of the world enriches the Chinese government. Do you think the Chinese government would have had the resources to pull off espionage like the OPM and Equifax hacks if all these Chinese people who have been producing hundreds of billions $ worth of goods sold to the US were peasant farmers instead?

There's no "silliness" and there was no earlier "misunderstanding" on my part. I'm simply not buying the false bill of goods you're selling. The ship for the grandeur of neoliberalism has sailed.