Do you know any inept BJJ black or brown belts?

[AnotherOldGuy]

You do know that Judo allowed gripping the body in the old days? But anyway, gripping someones body is more strength dependent than the GI

Here's an experiment you can try at home: get a heavy, awkward object (say a couple hundred pounds), and lift it to your waist. Then wrap that same object in a blanket and do the same. You'll almost certainly find wrapping it in a blanket makes it much easier (which is in fact why its a great trick if you're helping someone move).

Basically, the blanket (or gi) acts as a strength multiplier, and so rewards the stronger person more.

 

[Judochopatemi]

You can still grip the body in judo. ).

No it's illegal standing up

 

[Judochopatemi]

Grip strength and strength is one and the same thing. Ask how it feels to be gripped by Kimura and Marcelo Garcia,, then me that old school Judo and modern Jiujitsu isn't strength related..

 

[TheJewBear]

Yes. I've rolled with a number of inept black belts.

Former UFC fighters who are BJJ black belts but have let themselves go. Drugs and alcohol.

Hobbyist BJJ black belts who are more at the purple belt level.

A hobbyist BJJ black belt who is morbidly obese and middle-aged and can't do anything but lie on his back like a beached whale during a roll.

And hobbyist BJJ black belts who are not big nor strong and do zero strength or conditioning training. So while they may have black belt knowledge, they struggle to implement it against an athletic opponent.

 

[EndlessCritic]

And hobbyist BJJ black belts who are not big nor strong and do zero strength or conditioning training. So while they may have black belt knowledge, they struggle to implement it against an athletic opponent.

Black belt knowledge but can't perform is still a legit black belt.

 

[Judochopatemi]

Black belt knowledge but can't perform is still a legit black belt.

What is the difference between black belt and purple then? What I've heard is that the purple belt has the fundamentals and is qualified to teach but just needs more mat time

 

[EndlessCritic]

What is the difference between black belt and purple then? What I've heard is that the purple belt has the fundamentals and is qualified to teach but just needs more mat time

I'm overdue for a purple and I have some big holes in my game. But I can compensate because I am good at imposing the things I am very good at.

To me purple -> black is closing those holes. It's not improving your A game, but finalizing the things you have let stagnate.

 

[Judochopatemi]

I'm overdue for a purple and I have some big holes in my game. But I can compensate because I am good at imposing the things I am very good at.

To me purple -> black is closing those holes. It's not improving your A game, but finalizing the things you have let stagnate.

You're overdue in your mind but maybe not in your instructors...

 

[Judochopatemi]

Then we reach brown belts, and they are at such a high level that they can beat black belts repeatedly, though not at will. Once again, more mat time, finishing the touches...

 

[Judochopatemi]

A legit brown belt should according to me beat any non-specialized grappler in the groundgame 99% of the time. A brown belt is so advanced it's not relevant that he is not a black belt, IF he faces a non specialist.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

What is the difference between black belt and purple then? What I've heard is that the purple belt has the fundamentals and is qualified to teach but just needs more mat time

On the other hand, everyone loses actual ability (as opposed to knowledge as they age). Should say Helio have been demoted to say a blue belt (or even a white belt) as he got into his 90's (the point at which I'm assuming he'd be so frail even most beginners could easily beat him)?

This is a problem inherent in belt ranks -- what do they mean? If it means actual ability to perform, then they'd be more like title belts in MMA and boxing -- something you have for awhile and then relingquish.

Kano (who started the belt rank concept in martial arts) thought of them like school grades (no surprise, he was a university professor), which meant that once you passed a grade it was yours for life, even if you couldn't pass the test years later (I suspect I'd fail many of my undergraduate tests if I suddenly had to write them again, and even probably some high school tests). For him it was knowledge based, and that's still the model judo uses.

The Gracies seem to have followed that model too (though with the belt colors corresponding to different levels than judo's) -- you don't lose belt ranks in BJJ as you lose the ability to perform (or so I gather).

A performance based rank would end up being like say wrestling or boxing, where your rank is your current competitive placing (Olympic or national or regional or high school etc). There's a lot to be said for that, I think it works better in many ways than the knowledge ranks in judo and BJJ.

 

[Badger67]

Thankfully no, but i know a number of blue's and purples id question the shit out of.

 

[TheJewBear]

Black belt knowledge but can't perform is still a legit black belt.

The title of the thread is "do you know any INEPT BJJ black belts..."

Much like my air traffic controller colleagues who may know/have all of the required skill and knowledge of the job, if they are unable to perform, then they are inept, unskilled, incompetent.

 

[EndlessCritic]

The title of the thread is "do you know any INEPT BJJ black belts..."

Much like my air traffic controller colleagues who may know/have all of the required skill and knowledge of the job, if they are unable to perform, then they are inept, unskilled, incompetent.

I'm talking about can't perform because of physical infirmity.

I can't imagine someone understanding something that they've never been able to perform. You can't know you understand it until you can perform it. But if you lose the ability to perform it because of a physical sisue, it does not mean you have lost the understanding.

 

[TheJewBear]

I'm talking about can't perform because of physical infirmity.

I can't imagine someone understanding something that they've never been able to perform. You can't know you understand it until you can perform it. But if you lose the ability to perform it because of a physical sisue, it does not mean you have lost the understanding.

...Ok? It sounds like you're trying to change the definition of "inept". We're talking about ability, not knowledge.

 

[EndlessCritic]

...Ok? It sounds like you're trying to change the definition of "inept". We're talking about ability, not knowledge.

Agree to disagree. Understanding BJJ is about knowledge, not performance. Performance proves knowledge, but lack of performance does not necessarily disprove that knowledge.

If someone however is not physically disabled (any healthy guys in their 30s - 40s), and they can't perform, it's safe to say they don't have the knowledge or understanding, and are therefore inept.

 

[Judochopatemi]

Any youtube clips? Would be fun to see

 

[Whitebeltatlife]

A blackbelt did a drop in once who was probably mid-blue level. He was 'legit' in terms of his background etc (not self-promoted, from a respectable teacher etc) but he was poor. Fundamentally he did things badly which was surprising. I know you get the odd poor black belt but even by those standards he was bad.

I also know of several bad brown belts who are also blue belt level. I believe if you're naturally terrible then you peak at blue belt level. The problem with those guys is they only train 'to win' as the saying goes. Instead of experimenting it's always the same stuff. I'm sure it works at the lower belts but soon you need to be versatile. In about 5-10 years this will be way more common imo.

 

[Matsukaze]

When I was white belt maybe a few stripes an older brown belt guy came in that I haven't seen before. we rolled and I had my way with him and was pretty rough with him to be honest. I left that night feeling like I was really on the fast track.... until a few days later..... I over heard him and the instructor talking about how glad he was to have him back and take it easy since you are getting over heart surgery ... I felt like the biggest douche . I apologized to him and he was cool about it

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

The problem with those guys is they only train 'to win' as the saying goes. Instead of experimenting it's always the same stuff. I'm sure it works at the lower belts but soon you need to be versatile. In about 5-10 years this will be way more common imo.

why in the next 5-10 years? It's already quite common