Do you consider Phelps the GOAT Olympian?

Is Phelps the Olympic GOAT

  • Total voters
    78
MikeEhrmantraut said:
melo.jpg
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Lol. Not even top 10 in his own sport.
 
lalaland said:
Phelps on russian swimmer Yulia Efimova: "I think people should be speaking out more. You know I think (Lily) is right. I think something needs to be done. It's kind of sad that today in sports in general, not just in swimming, there are people who are testing positive and are allowed back in the sport, and multiple times. I think it just breaks what sport is meant to be and that pisses me off."

Angry Michael Phelps backs Lily King's stance over 'drugs cheat' Yulia Efimova at Rio Olympics
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2016/08/09/angry-phelps-backs-kings-stance-over-efimova/



I consider Phelps the GOAT hypocrite.
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Didn't Gatlin serve a 6 year suspension?
 
wlu29 said:
for one, usain bolt is a better athlete than him
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Phelps is a better Olympian than him.

Try to prove otherwise.
 
wlu29 said:
for one, usain bolt is a better athlete than him
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So is Michael Jordan. Who has accomplished more at the Olympics?

If Bolt is still dominating in 2020, he'll make the conversation.
 
PUO3 said:
Phelps is a better Olympian than him.

Try to prove otherwise.
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in total medal count, i can't

but in terms of actual prowess and ability, it's not really close

swimming is inflated with the total number of events and medals available, the field is also narrower and not as strong as in running
 
wlu29 said:
in total medal count, i can't

but in terms of actual prowess and ability, it's not really close

swimming is inflated with the total number of events and medals available, the field is also narrower and not as strong as in running
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Whats the goal in the Olympics doe?

Phelps is the GOAT Olympian and it isnt close. There is zero fact to support an argument otherwise.
 
Yes I do because I'm not a complete moran.
 
No. Better, more accomplished athletes in bigger sports have competed to only win one medal, because their sport isn't broken down into thirty some odd sub-events.

But this is sort of like P4P bullshit I guess. It's subjective. He's the GOAT swimmer - that's enough.
 
berimBOWLoh said:
no, lots of those medals are bullshit.

swimming should just be freestyle and nothing else. anything that is different type strokes is stupid and a huge advantage for swimmers to get more medals than other athletes. Imagine, Carl Lewis could have won medals running backwards, sideways etc etc??
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*Sigh* You on Gawker's staff? You'd fit in.

First, no, it would be a bit more like Carl Lewis also medaling in the Long Jump (*gasp*), Triple Jump, and/or Hurdles. Oh yeah, without the drugs, btw.

Second, there's the fact that Usain's energy system window is tiny. He runs two races: 100m and 200m. One takes ~10s, the other takes about ~20s. Whoopdy fucking doo. He's never dealing with specialists outside his specific energy range! Meanwhile, Michael Phelps has won individually in 100m races that last ~50s while also individually dominating the 400 IM (in the very same Olympics) that takes over 4 minutes.

Third, then there's also the reality that Usain's workload for the Games itself ain't shit:
-- 3 events. 8 total runs of a whopping 1100m total distance in 7 days. Is that a fucking vacation?
-- 8 events. 18 total swims of a grueling 3700m total distance in 8 days. That's what Phelps did in Beijing.

Do you have any idea how badly Phelps would have humiliated the rest of the world's best in his prime-- beyond what he has already done-- if all he had to do was swim the 100m Fly, 200m Fly, and 4x200m Fly Relay over the period of 7 days in his prime? Let him specialize in stroke, let him specialize in distance, let him face his opponents with the same rested workload...you think Ledecky's win margins are impressive? Jeah right. Phelps would have gotten gold, and nothing but gold by world record blowouts. Michael Jordan in the NBA Finals. 12/12.

Do you know the total number of male swimmers who have medaled individually in more than one stroke? It's extremely uncommon, and nearly all of them are crossovers of the Medley (the race of all four strokes) and the stroke in which they specialize at an equal distance (i.e. 200m/400m). Here, I'll list them for you:

  1. [USA] Michael Phelps (IM, Freestyle, Butterfly, Backstroke*)
  2. [USA] Ryan Lochte (IM, Backstroke)
  3. [HUN] László Cseh (IM, Butterfly)
  4. [RSA] Chad Le Close (Freestyle, Butterfly)
  5. [NZL] Danyon Loader (Freestyle, Butterfly)
  6. [USA] Pablo Morales (IM, Butterfy)
  7. [ITA] Massamiliano Rossolino (IM, Freestyle)
  8. [USA] Matt Biondi (Freestyle, Butterfly)
  9. [GER] Michael Gross (Freestyle, Butterfly)
  10. [ITA] Stegano Battisteti (IM, Backstroke)
  11. [USA] John Naber (Freestyle, Backstroke)
  12. [USA] Mark Spitz (Freestyle, Butterfly)
  13. [USA] Gary Hall Sr. (IM, Butterfly)
  14. [USA] Charlie Hickox (IM, Backstroke)
  15. [USA] John Ferris (IM, Butterfly)
  16. [AUS] Karl Ruberl (Freestyle, Backstroke) <-- in 1900 with a tiny number of countries competing
I did not include these two who also achieved this, but only were able to achieve it because the USA didn't compete in 1980:
  1. [USSR] Sergei Fesenko Sr. (IM, Butterfly)
  2. [HUN] Zoltán Verrasztó (IM, Butterfly)
  • Only 4 of the above swimmers have won Gold in both event types: Michael Phelps, Ryan Lochte, Mark Spitz, and Michael Gross.
  • Only 3 of the above swimmers have medaled at least twice in both event types: Michael Phelps, Ryan Lochte, and Mark Spitz.
  • *Additionally, only 1 medaled in three different event types, and he could have done it in four: Michael Phelps.
    • In 2004 and 2008, especially, if his workloads hadn't already been maximized to the limit, with a strategy of balancing his days and optimizing his medal potential, then Phelps would have been a favorite to medal. He was the US National Champion in the 200m Backstroke in 2003, and qualified for it when he placed second to Aaron Peirsol in the USA Trials in 2004; taking second only because Peirsol broke the world record. He dropped the race to focus on the 100m Butterfly against Ian Crocker. If seeded, he would have been favored to win Silver behind Peirsol that year in Athens, and would have challenged him for Gold.
    • The same would have been true in 2008 if he hadn't already learned in 2004 the workload was too great (though more difficult with Lochte and Peirsol both in top form).
 
Last edited:
Madmick said:
*Sigh* You on Gawker's staff? You'd fit in.

First, no, it would be a bit more like Carl Lewis also medaling in the Long Jump (*gasp*), Triple Jump, and/or Hurdles. Oh yeah, without the drugs, btw.

Second, there's the fact that Usain's energy system window is tiny. He runs two races: 100m and 200m. One takes ~10s, the other takes about ~20s. Whoopdy fucking doo. He's never dealing with specialists outside his specific energy range! Meanwhile, Michael Phelps has won individually in 100m races that last ~50s while also individually dominating the 400 IM (in the very same Olympics) that takes over 4 minutes.

Third, then there's also the reality that Usain's workload for the Games itself ain't shit:
-- 3 events. 8 total runs of a whopping 1100m total distance in 7 days. Is that a fucking vacation?
-- 8 events. 18 total swims of a grueling 3700m total distance in 8 days. That's what Phelps did in Beijing.

Do you have any idea how badly Phelps would have humiliated the rest of the world's best in his prime-- beyond what he has already done-- if all he had to do was swim the 100m Fly, 200m Fly, and 4x200m Fly Relay over the period of 7 days in his prime? Let him specialize in stroke, let him specialize in distance, let him face his opponents with the same rested workload...you think Ledecky's win margins are impressive? Jeah right. Phelps would have gotten gold, and nothing but gold by world record blowouts. Michael Jordan in the NBA Finals. 12/12.

Do you know the total number of male swimmers who have medaled individually in more than one stroke? It's extremely uncommon, and nearly all of them are crossovers of the Medley (the race of all four strokes) and the stroke in which they specialize at an equal distance (i.e. 200m/400m). Here, I'll list them for you:

  1. [USA] Michael Phelps (IM, Freestyle, Butterfly, Backstroke*)
  2. [USA] Ryan Lochte (IM, Backstroke)
  3. [HUN] László Cseh (IM, Butterfly)
  4. [RSA] Chad Le Close (Freestyle, Butterfly)
  5. [NZL] Danyon Loader (Freestyle, Butterfly)
  6. [USA] Pablo Morales (IM, Butterfy)
  7. [ITA] Massamiliano Rossolino (IM, Freestyle)
  8. [USA] Matt Biondi (Freestyle, Butterfly)
  9. [ITA] Stegano Battisteti (IM, Backstroke)
  10. [USA] John Naber (Freestyle, Backstroke)
  11. [USA] Mark Spitz (Freestyle, Butterfly)
  12. [USA] Gary Hall Sr. (IM, Butterfly)
  13. [USA] Charlie Hickox (IM, Backstroke)
  14. [USA] John Ferris (IM, Butterfly)
  15. [AUS] Karl Ruberl (Freestyle, Backstroke) <-- in 1900 with a tiny number of countries competing
I did not include these two who also achieved this, but only were able to achieve it because the USA didn't compete in 1980:
  1. [USSR] Sergei Fesenko Sr. (IM, Butterfly)
  2. [HUN] Zoltán Verrasztó (IM, Butterfly)
  • Only 4 of the above swimmers have won Gold in both event types: Michael Phelps, Ryan Lochte, Mark Spitz, and Michael Gross.
  • Only 3 of the above swimmers have medaled at least twice in both event types: Michael Phelps, Ryan Lochte, and Mark Spitz.
  • *Additionally, only 1 had the capability to medal in three different event types, and he could have done it in four: Michael Phelps. In 2004 and 2008, especially, if his workloads hasn't already been maximized to the limit, with a strategy of balancing his days and optimizing his medal potential, then Phelps would have been a favorite to medal. He was the US National Champion in the 200m Backstroke in 2003, and qualified for it when he placed second to Aaron Peirsol in the USA Trials in 2004; taking second only because Peirsol broke the world record. He dropped the race to focus on the 100m Butterfly against Ian Crocker. If seeded, he would have been favored to win Silver behind Peirsol that year in Athens, and would have challenged him for Gold. The same would have been true in 2008 if he hadn't already learned in 2004 the workload was too great (though more difficult with Lochte and Peirsol both in top form).
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still didnt address that most of those different stroke events are silly and unneeded. Only Americans and swimming enthusiasts think differently. Yes, different strokes are harder/more challenging. So is running on your hands.

i dont argue his greatness in swimming, at all. Or the fact he is one of the greatest Olympians of all time. Im just saying that pointing to his medals is an unfair comparison to others because swimming has the most medals and if somebody is dominant like an all time great they always get a boatload of medals. He is the greatest swimmer of all time, obv.

I usually dont see ppl put gymnasts as their greatest Olympians but they have a boatload of events, too.
 
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