Do UFC rules help wrestlers? (Long read, argument)

Espresso

Espresso

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Talon81 said:
I have disputed this multiple times on here and after I present even a short version of my case, you know what I hear? Crickets. Because people come up with this crap from their ass.
When MMA first started and had almost no rules, it was the ground game that won then, too. BJJ first, then wrestling.
With no rules there would be no rounds or time limits and no stand ups. Almost all illegal moves are more effective for wrestlers: spine strikes, knees to downed opponents, 12-6 elbows, headbutts, biting, etc. That is all just off of the top of my head, though I am sure there are many more.
Some rules do benefit wrestlers (such as fighting in an enclosed space, scoring for takedowns and top control), but if anything the rules benefit strikers more.

Basically, the rules almost exclusively help wrestlers in getting the decision, which is the least they can do since the rules almost exclusively take away a wrestlers easiest methods of finish, as they are "too brutal", and with no standups and rounds, stalling won't help the striker much. He will eventually gas out first being under the weight of a good wrestler.

Wrestling will dominate any combat sport that allows is, because as has been said previously, a wrestler will usually dictate where the fight takes place.
Click to expand...


VS


I like your argument, but im not buying.

12-6 elbows are deadly when wrestlers pass the guard.... but ON GUARD, the wrestler is at disadvantage with 12-6s.
The person at the buttom can start 12-6 his crane off.

No upkicks allowed.

Are you sure spine attacks benefit wrestlers more than strikers? Because spine attacks would best be served when a wrestler puts cage pressure, opponents can unload on his spine.

Back of the head shots to an opponent IN GUARD. You cant get hit in the back of the head if your head is against the floor.

How about soccer kicks? A striker knocks you down and unloads free kicks to the side of you head....

Knees to a down opponent is tricky. First thought that comes to head is "wrestlers take down and knee head off". But what is he faild the TD?
A lot of times they touch the canvas and are free of knee.
Brunson vs Adensanya showed many times Bumson rushing in, a lot of times he was grounded and Adesanya couldnt throw a kick... he had to time it perfectly.

WHOS SIDE ARE YOU ON?
 
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Pretty sure I saw the exact same thread a couple of days ago.


What’s with the rumored tag?
 
Really? You needed to make a new thread instead of just replying to the thread that person posted in?

How desperate are you for e-ttention?

<{clintugh}>
 
Espresso said:
How about soccer kicks? A striker knocks you down and unloads free kicks to the side of you head....
Click to expand...
No, the wrestler is favored. You aren't going to knock someone down, run around to their side to line up a kick. Soccer kicks are much more usable when you are riding, folkstyle style from the side, then can stand and tee off with kicks at any time.
 
Yes, most of the rules favor wrestlers. The enclosed space, no up kicks, head kicks or knees to the head of a downed opponents. All of these techniques would be huge deterrents for lazy shot attempts, imagine wrestlers getting punted in the face for a sloppy take down. How much top control is favored also causes fighters to game the system. These little bump elbows wrestlers do when they can't create enough space (which rarely result in a KO) is also another method of gaming the system because they allow for maintaining the guise of control. In reality a lot of these wrestlers don't have the ability or even necessity to improve position due to the current rule set. Pride FC pretty much had things right. The environment favored the strikers, the long first round favored the grapplers, up kicks, soccer kicks and knees to a downed opponent balanced out the usual advantage grapplers have. Having no elbows also meant grapplers had to create space in order to deliver strikes, this space also gave the opponent the opportunity for a scramble. Neither rule set will truly recreate an authentic "real life" fight situation but the Pride rules were definitely much fairer in a sporting context.
 
ocean size said:
No, the wrestler is favored. You aren't going to knock someone down, run around to their side to line up a kick. Soccer kicks are much more usable when you are riding, folkstyle style from the side, then can stand and tee off with kicks at any time.
Click to expand...
Id say pride and one fc disagrees with ya
Shit just watch a cro cop ,shogun or wanderlei highlights reel
It favours strikers wayyyy more as it both allows to punish failed takedowns and allows guys to be knocked down and follow up strikes without the risk of following the guy to the floor

Edit just youtube search the phrase one fc soccer kicks or pride fc soccer kicks and youl see
 
Espresso said:
VS


I like your argument, but im not buying.

12-6 elbows are deadly when wrestlers pass the guard.... but ON GUARD, the wrestler is at disadvantage with 12-6s.
The person at the buttom can start 12-6 his crane off.

No upkicks allowed.

Are you sure spine attacks benefit wrestlers more than strikers? Because spine attacks would best be served when a wrestler puts cage pressure, opponents can unload on his spine.

Back of the head shots to an opponent IN GUARD. You cant get hit in the back of the head if your head is against the floor.

How about soccer kicks? A striker knocks you down and unloads free kicks to the side of you head....

Knees to a down opponent is tricky. First thought that comes to head is "wrestlers take down and knee head off". But what is he faild the TD?
A lot of times they touch the canvas and are free of knee.
Brunson vs Adensanya showed many times Bumson rushing in, a lot of times he was grounded and Adesanya couldnt throw a kick... he had to time it perfectly.

WHOS SIDE ARE YOU ON?
Click to expand...

Definitely agree with 12-6. It’s a game changer grappling wise. Not only if a wrestler is in your guard but also if they’ve got you pressed up against the cage with their head exposed. People would be cautious about shooting for a takedown if that was in play.

Also agree with the knees to an extent. I think a good wrestler could do a lot of damage with knees on the ground, but again they would risk real punishment if they failed the take down. We’ve seen it so many times where there is a failed takedown attempt and the head is exposed at the perfect height for a knee.
 
the cage helps as well since its a surface that allows a wrestler to hold a fighter against and it'll support them. the ropes obviously dont allow that, and more fights hit the mat which put more focus on the ground game and guys having to actually fight and use energy more
 
Nah, there is just no way to fairly judge an MMA fight.

Get ineffectively punched while trying 5 min for a take down you never get.
octagon control.
10-9

I GOT THE TAKEDOWN!!!
octagon control.
10-9

Pop right up after takedown and land strikes.
octagon control
9-10

WTF is octagon control!!
 
Get rid of the rumor tag and maybe I will tell you the answer you chode
 
I agree with @Talon81

North south knee to skull is the money and it's not allowed.
 
My view is if you can can't get it done (arm bar or choke or other) in one minute then referee should reset.

One minute is along time on the floor wrestling you should be able to achieve something with quick efficient moves.

If people want pure wrestling then go watch that.............. its suppose to be M.M.A.

The old classic.......



:D
 
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It wasn’t even that long of a read, dude.

Anyway (still didn’t read lmao) I don’t agree. Imagine if GSP had knees to the head? He’d go north/south WAY more often. Knees to the head make wrestlers...murderers, really.

I’m all for it, but 2018 Pride has way more knock outs due to knees to the dome.
 
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