Do people realize that Cro Cop...

SlomiGa said:
Montenegrin, but most people consider them the same. A huge fan of Mirko though, and he's definitely not being given enough props.
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Cool, i'm Serbian myself (but live in Australia now).

You're definitely right about Mirko not being given enough props.
 
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The problem with that argument is that his decline wasn't gradual. He had just won the OWGP, his best career accomplishment in MMA. He didn't adjust well to the cage and it's impossible to prove but I think he suffered a mental block after the Gonzaga fight. He was just so gunshy after that.

Age I'm sure played some factor but definitely not the only one. His talent was undeniable; you don't beat the people he did without that talent. But his poor UFC run was not just a case of mileage, as some Cro Cop fans have retroactively tried to suggest.
 
Cro Cop's problems were injuries and mindset more than anything. He was already done mentally before winning the PRIDE OWGP.

He was already wanting to retire and the OWGP was to be his last stint as a fighter. I wouldn't say he had an easy Grand Prix but he had favorable matches and was just 'on' for the night.

It's basically the equivalent of BJ's recent retirement and him coming back to fight Rory. Instead of losing, he wins a tournament. That's basically where Cro Cop's career was at that point.

Since he was a PRIDE star, UFC offered him a contract for an amount he couldn't refuse. For his legacy, he should have turned it down as he would be considered in the top 10 of all time if he had retired winning the OWGP. Instead, he became a prize fighter that didn't have the fire anymore but fought because it was his job. Anyone that fights with that mindset is done.
 
tappedtostrikes said:
I agree, a "prime" Cro Cop would have walked right through that kick to the head.
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U are either delusional or a troll. No way he walks thru that head kick from Gonzaga. That is a KO no matter if he is in his prime or not...

Frickin Shertards......
 
Gunny said:
Prime CroCop won the Pride OWGP in 2006 - just months before entering the UFC. a lot of you fuckers are living in a fantasy land.
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'just months' is living in a fantasy land.

Lots can happen in months.
 
emperor said:
Do YOU realize that just five months earlier, he won the Pride OWGP?
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So, its not like he had a tough draw in the tournament, he beat Minowa(MW), who he would still beat now, Yoshida(LHW), who he would still beat now, Wanderlei(LHW) a brawler who he could still beat, and a spent Barnett that he had already beaten twice.

Cro Cop was passed his prime by 2005, just because he got a bunch of favorable match ups and won a OWGP doesn't mean he was at his best, he wasn't.
 
Lightfoot said:
Even "prime" CC was always prone to KO upsets. The Michael McDonald, Kevin Randleman and Gonzaga fights are all eerily similar in circumstances.

The Gonzaga fight was the turning point for him though. His knee was obviously never the same afterwards.
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Crocop of course fought a hell of alot of guys capable of landing KO's in both MMA and K1 but I think as you say the circumstances of those three loses were all rather similar.

In all three cases I think Mirko underestimated his opposition and in both the Randleman and Gonzaga fights I think he had an eye on Fedor, he was constantly talking about fighting him again even after signing for the UFC.

The upshot agenst Gonzaga was IMHO that he simpley didnt prep for his new enviroment. He was totally unprepaired for elbows on the ground from Gabe hanging onto the same wrist control he used in Pride but still getting cracked in the head. Of course Gonzaga like Randleman and McDonald needed to give great performances to exploit it but Mirko left openings for them.

Agenst Kongo I think it was the combination of shellshock from that loss, again not adapting to the enviroment and the potential for cage clinching plus of course Chieks disgraceful repeated low blows that should really have lost him a point IMHO.

Physical decline was I'd say much more of an issue during Mirko's second UFC run and I think the big turning point was actually the knee infection he picked up in early 2009. He'd been slowing down a bit before then but vs Al Turk he suddenly looked alot less mobile to me.
 
Fishmonger said:
Most of his stoppages in K1 weren't from punches to his chin or head. Did you even watch those fights?

Additionally, before his mma fight against Gonzaga, Cro Cop had only been T/KOd once.



Prime Cro Cop would have torn through the UFC when he entered in 2007. After he won the Grand Prix, he seemed to lose the killer mentality he once had. Also, as the OP notes, Cro Cop had been fighting for years and in competitive, damaging bouts.
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Just my opinion but I think he was in prime when he went against Gonzaga he just got Randleman style upset and then lost his no-fear instinct. Nowadays I think he is fighting his heart out again, especially in K-1 but he is actually out of prime now. But I definitely think he's better now than he was when he first came to UFC... but he'll never be the old CC again.
 
Rvd Slmr said:
His chin has never been legendary, he has been stopped by strikes in K1 and MMA before that.
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I wouldn't count his K1 losses. At the time he was competing everyone was getting stopped by everyone. Even the best guys like Hoost, Shilt, and Aerts had one or two losses by stoppage if not more.
 
Edgar Allan Hoe said:
I wouldn't count his K1 losses. At the time he was competing everyone was getting stopped by everyone. Even the best guys like Hoost, Shilt, and Aerts had one or two losses by stoppage if not more.
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I liked Alien more than Aliens tbh, and you NEED to add Empire Strikes Back to that list.
 
TheComebackKid said:
Gonzaga, Kongo, Mir, Schaub, and Nelson could have all beaten him in 03 and 04. He would be the favorite against most of these guys but lets not act like he didn't lose all the time.

Randleman of all people ko'd him

8-7 Mark Hunt decisioned him

Nog subbed him after being on the ground for about 10 seconds

Fedor, a sloppy(yet effective) brawler managed to outstruck the guy

Wanderlei, a LHW, took him to a draw

Cro Cop was not some indestructible killing machine who walked through everyone. Its a myth.
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Your posts are consistently terrible.
 
I'd love to see Anderson fight "8-7 Mark Hunt", I suspect it might proove a tougher test than "lost to Horn three times Chael Sonnen" did first time round.
 
Juzie said:
Just my opinion but I think he was in prime when he went against Gonzaga he just got Randleman style upset and then lost his no-fear instinct. Nowadays I think he is fighting his heart out again, especially in K-1 but he is actually out of prime now. But I definitely think he's better now than he was when he first came to UFC... but he'll never be the old CC again.
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Yep I'd tend to agree although I think alot of the reason for the upset was a lack of adaptaion to a new enviroment, you could see the signs there in the Sanchez match with the trouble he was having cutting off Eddie.

The Crocop that fought guys like Nelson was clearly way way slower and less mobile than his peak years though, anyone who can't see that quite frankly isnt worth debating with.
 
I enjoy reading peoples points of view when it comes to these (sometimes endless) "what if" or "in his prime" threads. Some good arguments to be made. Others, not so much.

But the simple fact here is that Cro Cop came over to the UFC as a still durable and capable fighter with all the tools he had possessed during his great run in PRIDE.

He just so happened to run into a few equally capable MMArtists.
 
BTW the guys who beat him in his UFC run could still beat him in his prime, but very low chance for Schaub, fairly low chance for Mir and Nelson (I LOVE Roy BTW, he just would have a tough time against a prime CC). Kongo and JDS would still be pretty dangerous though.

Actually not sure about Gonzaga because the Manbearpig who beat CC seemed to be a totally different animal from any Zaga seen before or since barring maybe the one that fought Captain America.
 
I'm sick of all these Palhares threads so I'm reviving the only decent thread I ever made.
 
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